Russ, How far a rod can cast is a function of its power (ERN), length, and frequency, not to mention how much effort the angler puts into the cast or the wind resistance of one's lure. Any competent fly caster can cast the full length (e.g., 90 feet) of any fly line, so, as you say, calling a rod a 5, 6, 7, or 8 is actually meaningless. That is why the CCS does not use that term. The as
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Bill, ERN and AA won't tell you anything really useful about "Feel." Those are static properties, while "Feel" is a dynamic property. That is why the concept of CCF was developed and is included by Pacific Bay in their data bank. They are ahead of the game for most users. It would behoove all serious custom fly rod builders to catch up. While knowing the CCF is useful
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Tom, I know you understand the problem, however I believe your analogy using the metric system misses the point. There, it was a question of choosing one of two alternatives—equally capable of transmitting the information. This is comparable to arguing whether a rod's power should be described in terms of ERN or IP (Intrinsic Power). Both systems give the same results and there are well defined
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I can't count the times I have seen requests like the following. "I have a customer looking for 8 ft 3wt Fly Rod Blank. The only thing that I could come up with is a xxxxx (Mfg., Model) in the right length but it is a 4wt. ... . Any of you folks know of a manufacturer out there that may have this in their line up of blanks?" This is invariably followed by a number of responses ex
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Thanks for the replies. You have convinced me. I'll restrain myself to eight inches. David, Do you have any data that shows the weight of a typical butt wrap has any significant effect on any of the performance factors of a fly rod, other than making it a trifle heavier? Or is that just "conventional wisdom?"
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Can someone give me a ball park number as to how much it might cost to have a decorative wrap done on a fly rod butt section? I would envision it would involve four colors and be about 18 inches in length.
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Russ, I found your latest response both interesting and informative. Also, it vividly highlighted the major problem associated with trying to introduce some "Common Cents" into the description of fishing rods. In every case when a new concept is introduced, there is resistance from those in the "establishment" who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. The
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Tim, "... I would think one rod's stand alone data should be able to be interpretted into something specific unless there some hidden agenda that I'm missing." The "hidden agenda" you are missing is it is assumed you understand the concepts and measurements of the CCS and how they relate to each other. It is apparent you don't, and you probably haven't read or understo
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"My original intent was to have some type of measurement that told me a rod could cast a normal 30' of 10wt line efficiently and have a butt section with enough muscle to allow me to land a feisty salmon from a stationary boat position without having to pull anchor and chase it all over the river because the rod's too weak to land it." ------------------------------- The ERN answers
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My data from "The Big Picture" says . . . . Posted by: Tim Collins (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) ... if I can get the terminology right - the upper section will load a 10wt line and it has a really strong butt section". If I am incorrect, please tell me what I do have, thanks. -------------------------- To be technical, your data does not indicate the upper section will load anyth
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If I remember correctly, a modern US one cent piece weighs 2.5 grams.
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"Not sure if I 5 weight in the same blank would feel anything like the 2wt though." Feel is a function of the "loaded" frequency of a rod. If the actions (AA) are the same, one can get any feel one might desire by simply changing the WL (weight of line aerialized). Try reading the CCS article on frequency. Overall weight is another matter.
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Phil Erickson Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Using an 8 or 10 wt line for mountain Brook Trout, would be like using a Tarpon Rod for Blue Gill ! ---------------------- I believe you exagerate a bit. When fishing for mountain brook trout, the problem is not related to the weight (strength, ERN) of the rod, since one really doesn't fish for these little trout
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Why not build the fly rod? Weight (ounces) really isn't a problem unless you are severely anemic and are going to hike 100 miles. Simply string it up with an AFTMA 8 or 10 line and it will feel like a bamboo rod.
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Peter, Answers to your questions: 1. The thought there should be a simple relationship between the weights of fly lines and the strength of fly rods which cast them. Plus, fifty years of practice looking at data and trying to develop some simple relationship between the two factors which would be useful for future predictions. 2. The ERN scale is nonlinear so the conversion was done by h
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Tom Kirkman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- The only thing I would advise checking is the deflection amount. A 9 footer should be deflected a total of 33 inches. As long as that was accomplished and the rod was level to begin with, his numbers should be correct. 9x12/3=36
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Rick Heil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- My problem is... I know at-least three types of fishing rods I want to build...I have the three rods I have used for the past 10 years ...but the actions are not listed on the rods any more... they have all worn off or were never put on the rod in the first place. I don't even want to order blank without actually goi
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The problem of the "static single point measurement" is addressed by the URRS which applies to all rods which flex. Here, one measures ERN, TP (Tip Power), and PR (Power Reservoir) instead of, or in addition to AA. If all those values are the same, the rods will "feel" the same. If they are not, one can determine exactly why they don't feel the same.
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Remember, this is only a game devised to sell "production rods" of recognized manufacturers. There is no such thing as a #5 or 5-wt. rod except one on which the manufaturer has written the number 5.. This number has no relationship to any physical property of the rod, only the line the designer recommends be used, and that depends on how far you want to throw it. If you want to
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Geoff Staples Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Are you doing another seminar at the CRBE next year? ------------------------------------------------------ Currently, it is not my intention to do so.
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Chad Huderle Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- In the first article you authored, you characterized an AA of 59 and below to slow, 59-63 as moderate, 63-66 as mod/fast and over 66 as fast. Has something similar been been done with the ERN ? In other words, an ERN of 1-4 may be characterized as ultra light, 5-8 may be characterized as light, etc? ---------------
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It's really not the line that matters, it is the PPF (Personal Preferred Frequency) of the caster. The length and weight of line outside the tip simply is the tool one uses to adjust a rod to the angler's PPF.
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Emory Harry Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- If you add mass to the rod as Bill Hanneman is suggesting you should understand that you will be increasing the rod's inertia which will reduce how far the rod/line will cast, how much effort is required to cast a given distance and you will also reduce the rod's sensitivity. Adding mass has the same affect as lowe
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"Simple, try to borrow at least two heaver lines and try them on this rod, even three. I bet you you will like it a lot better. " Simpler still and cheaper! Use a "Feel Fixer"® or simply add a bit of weight to the tip of your rod. Your problem is frequency. Your PPF (Personal Prerfered Frequency) is lower than that produced by you present casting outfit ( Rod + Line
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A rod is a rod is a rod. The function of taper is to determine or define the action (AA) of the rod. What one desires in this respect is strictly a personal decision. The principle difference between a "classic spinning rod" and a "classic trout rod" lies in the frequency of the rod blank. Spinning rods typically exhibit higher frequencies. But, again, what one desires i
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Russ, "Maybe I have it all wrong but shouldn't the builder be accountable for making sure the parts used are within spec and defect free? " There are no specifications for a 5-wt rod other than the manufacturer put the number 5 on the rod. As long as anglers insist on classifying rods by "weight", there are no specifications one must meet. That was the purpose of ERN
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Ben, CCS "Common Cents System" is a SYSTEM or group of tests which provides a number of methods for characterizing rods. CCF "Common Cents Frequency" is one test in the System. Stiffness is a static measurement and is expressed in units of ERN. Frequency is a dynamic measurement and is expressed in units of cpm (cycles per minute). The optimum stiffness of a rod is pr
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Russ, You pose interesting questions. But first, if this hypothetical rod will never be used with a lure, nor to cast anything, what function does it perform? Why not simply tie the line to your finger? Theoretically, there is no limit as to how high the frequency of a rod could be. However there becomes a point where the rod is too stiff to be a reasonable fishing tool. Few anglers use a
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Ben, You wrote. “Thank you for the encouragement. If we can persuade Dr. Bill Hanneman as well, I'll be on my way. “ You sound as if you have an inquiring mind, are ambitious, and like to “play” with your computer. I, on the other hand have “been there--done that” enough to have developed the philosophy that if a thing is not worth doing at all, it is not worth doing well. Now
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Ben, Lots of luck. See Frequency Revisited - Part 3
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