From what I’ve concluded in my testing, I’m not sure that there would be a “choke guide” per se. The line (braid) is pretty much “tamed” as it goes through the butt guide. Obviously, I haven’t tested for all brands and sizes, but what testing I have done leads me to believe that braids are a whole new ballgame when setting up a guide “systemâ€
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I’ve done my own testing similar to Bob McKamey (ref M&M Vol 5 spinning rods) and found that the 27x may be relevant with monofilament lines, but totally irrelevant if you are using braids.
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Steve and Bill, I did see and read those. I guess the “tame the lion” thing was too subtle for my addled mind. Was clever….”lion---line”. I should have got that since I live in Alabama where “Jim” is pronounced with two syllables (snicker). It still would seem more appropriate to me if you would refer to the “system” as the (“lion (or l
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After re-reading all of this thread, I’ve concluded that Bob McKamey has been the only one to offer any real specifics for the “line tamer guide system”* to help us in doing our own experimental set-ups. The theories have been interesting and may have given some, the perception of an “information overload”. Perhaps we ARE over-thinking the whole thing. Jim Gamble s
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Jim G. I currently set up my rods per the method that Don Morton showed me several years ago. One of the most significant differences in his method compared to the NGC was that he set the guides concentric to the spool as opposed to aligning the outside edges with a straight edge from the spool center. His method has worked very well for me, but I’m going to explore the smaller ringed gui
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Denis, I’m afraid trial and error, and stumbling in the dark, as you say, may be the most viable option to most of us. Since the wavelength is subject to changes ....as you also said.(I could see that with my nekked eye) I think we’d have to strive to set up the guides for a bit wider range of variables. As to the photo image that you refer to, my line (braid) looks nothing as chao
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Denis, My earlier analogy of 2 people skipping a rope was indeed a poor one. I had to go out and do some test casting and observing. What I saw was not quite what my “minds eye” remembered seeing. I edited my earlier statement this morning and changed it to a stretched out spring…..so we’re on the same page with that. As to the rest of what you’re saying, Iâ€â„
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Denis, You said “The points which are not blurred are nodes, where the line is rotating around its own axis with no amplitude. “ I think I know what you are saying, but I’m having a hard time believing it. Without having access to high speed imagery, it seems to me that the line is simply coming off the spool in coils (not withstanding line twist or other abnormality) and w
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Jim, I agree with your conclusion and I have components ordered, but I’d like to have a better understanding about the mechanics (or physics) of what’s happening to the line and what we’re trying to solve for. I’d kill to see some of Don Morton’s photo’s right now. My hope is that by hearing the theories of others, that I can garnish enough info to give
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When I observe the line leaving the spool when I cast, it may be deceptive, but what I see is similar to what you’d see if you stretched out a spring….except of course the line has linear movement. I’d compare it to a wood screws thread, with the spiral (or pitch diameter) narrowing as it enters the butt guide. High speed photography may show a node, that perhaps is not visib
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Bobby, YES, just use the "progressive spacing", dictated by rod loading, that you would normally use with your casting rod set-ups. Btw, there are different stresses by using the “equal spacing”, but they are all well within acceptable limits. By optimizing the spacing (progressive), you should be able to eliminate a guide (or 2).
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Chuck, Since I’ve found this thread to be so interesting, I’ve been re-reading some of the posts. You mentioned on page 2, using Fireline (braid) and asked what others prefer. I had a lot of trouble finding a braid that worked well for me with spinning reels (any braid works well with casting, but I prefer Power Pro). I finally discovered that the Spiderwire Fusion worked great. Un
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My take on this subject (FWIW), is that we’re looking at the possibility that by drastically changing the traditional “choke guide” or “transition guide” location and simply “taming” or controlling the line and moving it quickly to the blank where it can be efficiently carried in the direction of travel. In effect, the “choke guide”, would be
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The more I think about all this, the more I’m convinced that I don’t understand all I know about it! There’s a lot of things going on and Bill’s right….there’s some complex stuff. I think that when setting up a spinning rod, the type of line being used must be considered. It would also follow that the actual testing must employ the type of line to be used
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Chuck, With the combined effect of very light lures, which tend to allow a lack of line tension, and mono (or fluorocarbon), which has a memory and tends to coil, the smaller butt guides may indeed cause too much “back pressure” or have a “damming” effect at the guide. A more aggressive cast may further aggravate the problem because of additional centrifugal forces seen b
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I think another thing worth considering, especially for those of you using braided line, is downsizing reels. I use much smaller reels (Daiwa SS700 Tournament and Shimano 1500 series) than other folks do for bass fishing. They have shorter stem heights that get the spool centerline closer to the blank and contribute to the overall lightness of the set-up. Their smaller spool diameters handle brai
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Alex, It is possible that your line slap on retrieve is from the lack of line resistance. This can also be encountered when retrieving light lures where the resistance doe’s not overcome the centrifical force imposed on the line by the rotating bail
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I’m intrigued about what Bob has to say about using the smaller, higher Batson “M” guides. I’ve retrofitted most of my rods with micros for the running guides and I’d like to try the smaller butt/transition guides. Doe’s anyone have any of the specs on the “M” guides? I.E. heights, materials, weights, etc. I’m wondering how their heights
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Bill, No, it's Mike Barkley's. He put it up several months ago.
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Phil, Have you never modified a tool to do a specific task better? A rod blank is kind of like a blank canvas for a painter. Guess that’s why it’s “custom” rod building. For me, there are advantages to cutting blanks from the butt AND the tip. I do hate having to buy an expensive blank and cutting 6 to 8 inches off at a couple of dollars per foot. IMO, a shorter rod, f
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Jeff, It’s interesting to me that you and others DO consider rod length for hook setting. I should never have said "never". (or implied it????) I won’t argue that your solution for some of your clients was a valid one….can’t argue with results. As long as there were no other “trade-offs”. Fortunately, I don’t have to “solve” fo
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The lengths of the rods I use have little to do with hook setting capabilities and I doubt that anyone else has given much consideration to hook setting in choosing rod lengths. It may be interesting to speculate about the rod’s length effect on hook setting, but rod length selection is usually based on other criteria. If I were to have a problem with hook setting, my solution certainly wo
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Although I agree that there may be a net gain in hook setting force in a longer rod, I think Emory’s argument is a valid one. To test his theory I suppose it would be a simple matter of taking a rod and having the line run through the guides normally and measuring the hook setting force. The next test would be done by removing the line from the tip top, effectively making the 2nd guide the tip
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Reading through this tread, I don’t see much said regarding attributes of shortening a rod. For what it’s worth….I’m not a “pro” nor am I looking for a “following”. Since hook setting is a non-issue with me, I’ve found that there are other advantages to a shorter rod. I’ve also found that for certain techniques, a much slower tip is advantageous and removing 2 to 4 inches from
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Bill, I think there is a correlation of distance to efficiency. Before the grass gets up in Guntersville, I often throw a weightless (“trick”) worm with spinning rod (guides 25, 12, 6, 3.5 runners and 3.5 sf tip) using 10# braid. The worm really doesn’t cast well, probably due to its ungainly mass/shape. Any increase in casting efficiency (not necessarily distance) would be beneficial. Iâ
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Most of my rods (casting & spinning) are med/hvy and have relatively short rear grips (5-7”). For me, they offer more agility (for lack of a better word). Since I prefer rods of 5’8” to 5’10” for most of my (Bass) fishing, I don’t need as much leverage and a longer rear grip is less of a factor for balancing.
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I think that one of the biggest issues associated with the use of the “micro” guides is the unavailability of comparable tip-tops. I started using the micros early this spring and rather than use a larger tip-top, that looked dorky with the smaller Fuji 3.5’s, I decided to wrap on another 3.5 single foot for the tops. I was a little skeptical as to its strength, but I’ve used regular unbr
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As Tom suggests, using a single foot guide as a tiptop works well. The unavailability of the small tiptops has been a blessing in disguise for me. I really like the lightness of the single foots and although they tend to be a little more fragile than a regular tiptop, they seem to hold up fine. It doe’s take some practice to wrap them to where they look good. My preference is for the Fuji LSG 3
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If you have an old spinning reel that you no longer use, strip it down to the bare body, then cut (hacksaw) away the rear half of the gear housing leaving the front of the housing attached to the reel foot. This will leave the front spindle bearing hole exposed and visible when sighting from the butt of the rod. Install in the rods reel seat and use like a gunsight. It can also be used to align g
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