The Rosetta Stone Chart Part 3 only shows conversions up to 173/16. Is there another all inclusive chart somewhere? As I said earlier, my rods measure 114 to 184 cents (spinning) and 130 to 309 (casting). Maybe the System was only intended for modern, up-to-date, popularly used rod configurations. I did go back to the CCF article and without the ERN, I cannot determine the weight required to
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I think there is a very real possibility that there is a risk of “throwing the baby out with the dishwater”. I agree with Bobby when he says, “simple to understand, easy to grasp and has relevance to our needs”. The CCS in its entirety goes waaaaaay beyond that. While a few elitists (or purists) may wish to indulge in the entirety of its scope, most of us just want a stra
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Been there, done that. The conversion charts shown there only go to up to 173 cents. Unless there’s another chart that I’m overlooking, it won’t do me much good. My rods measure 114 to 184 cents (spinning) and 130 to 309 (casting). It still seems to me that I’m already using what I’ve got for comparative purposes. What more does ERN get me?
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I read the article again…I’m waaaaay past the point of diminishing return. Still don’t find a conversion from cents to ERN (130 to 309 cents). When you said “the nuts and bolts are hidden within the CCS”, that was an understatement. Guess I’ll stick with my foreshortened version.
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Tom, I found the RM (Vol 10- 4) that I think has the means to establish ERN for casting rods and I will read it. When I first became aware of the System several years ago, the chart giving the conversion from cents to ERN stopped well short of the cents amount I needed to convert. I’m still not sure that having an ERN will benefit me any more than just using pennies as a relative Power ra
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I’ve been thinking about the two ratings, Power and Action and their interrelationship. I’m wondering how many guys consider that when changing one or the other, how it affects the dynamics of a rod. When you look at the typical diagram illustrating the “fast, “moderate” or “slow” (or subdivisions), it does give a general idea of the classification of
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Bill, Spinning reel??????
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Bill, In regards to crankbait rods…. I must be living proof of Darwin’s Theory……the way my crankbait rods have evolved is that, although my rods are moderate Action, I’ve gone to a little heavier Power (than medium) and increased power to the tip by shortening. Might be worth mentioning that I also fish with braid. I suppose you could say that I’m trying to
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I’ve had people who wanted another med-hvy (or whatever), “fast Action” rod just like the one they had, except they wanted a slightly stiffer tip to better work baits and increase sensitivity. I explained to them that I could cut 1” or 2” off the tip, but the rod may or may not be still classified as “fast Action”, depending on how “fast” it
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Tom, Agreed, but isn’t tip “stiffness” or “softness” generally associated with Action. I.E., a “faster Action” would generally have a “softer” tip as opposed to a “moderate Action” in the same powered rod. I’m not saying its how Action is determined, but I think it’s usually a by-product.
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Matthew, When you say “stiffer” (being relative), isn’t that a contradiction to “fast”? I agree with being able to impart better action on baits with a stiffer tip, but I find that to get “stiffness”, I either have to cut back the tip of a “fast action” (slowing the blank)or up the “Power” to where the tip is relatively stifferâ
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I think “Action” is clearly defined by both text (glossary) and the diagrams (including text) such as that provided on Castaway’s web site. The “flex point”(where the blank begins to flex, determining its ratio of the blanks length, which in turn, determines the “Action” as “fast, “mod” or “slow”) is nebulous and of course,
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Phil, I’d like to see that as well. I’ve gone to much smaller stripper guides using braid that would not work well with mono.
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Tom, You’re probably right, the Action may not be clearly understood…let alone how it can affect the way a rod is suited for certain techniques or applications. Perhaps I was presumptuous in thinking that the users of this fourum, primarily being rod builders, would have a pretty good grasp of the definition. It’s been in the site’s glossary for some time. At least now
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Bill, Looked at the site. The diagram and text for action was consistent with other sources. The rod finder was unique and although it identified a recommended blank for a specific application, it didn’t give any insight as to why it would be preferred. I suppose that would be an area where it becomes subjective….and interesting.
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Although we all know (presumably) the rod builder’s definition of “Action”, I think it would be interesting to hear some subjective insight as to how the Action (slow, mod, or fast) affects how a rod performs for given techniques or applications. Any further thoughts on how it interacts with “power”? ….or, “Sensitivity”?
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Denis, Although your explanation is very thorough, I think you may have misunderstood Bill’s question. I believe what he was asking was “How would the rod’s power and action be affected by having a 12” grip vs. a 7” grip (different reel location).” Second question: “If you cut off 5” from the 12” grip (leaving a 7” grip), would the p
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Granted, this is an over-simplification and ignores all other aspects of rod use/function, but….If you were to build two rods using identical blanks, one having a 6” grip, the other having a 12” grip (same overall length), and both rods were to be cast one-handed, the rod with the 12” grip would have a slightly “slower” action. If you then stripped the rods dow
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Mike, I’m not sure why you think anyone is confused about the “definition” of action. I’m in total agreement with what you’re saying if a rod is used for two-hand casting, BUT…. there is a point of contention,… it’s in the 1/3 of “length”…which in the case of a “fast” 6’ blank is, as you say, 2’ fro
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Mike, I agree with you in theory, but depending on how the rod is used, a portion of the butt section may not even be used (one-handed cast), which in effect makes the distance from the reel (or ?) to the flex point of the tip more relevant. I think a blank and a finished rod can be two different animals. I also agree with what you said…” changing the grip length shouldn't effect the
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For a blank of a given length, the location of the reel (resulting in a short or long grip) does effectively change the rods power and action. And, as mentioned earlier, the dynamics can change depending on how the rod is used. I think of the rod blank as being the raw material for a finished rod. It’s like a primary ingredient of a food dish…. it’s characteristics can chang
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For the type of (Bass) fishing that I do, most of the grips on my rods are relatively short (6-7”). A short grip offers me more agility and is less awkward. I don’t feel that a longer grip is necessary because most of my rods are under 6 feet in overall length. A longer rod usually necessitates a longer grip to maintain a more desirable ratio. The way I see it, if I were to extend th
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Bill, You are right. The only variable would be if the grip was left long, it would allow the fisherman to apply more leverage….not only in fish fighting, but in casting (if using both hands. When casting one handed, power/action stays the same whether short or long grip….as long as the rod length is the same from the reel seat to the tip. This can be a complex issue and if youâ€â
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Obed, Just curious…how far is the butt guide from the reel? From your measurements, it would seem to be around 15 or 16”, which might be a little too close. I still don’t know why you’d notice a difference by removing one guide…unless it had an accumulative effect on another less-than-desirable condition, which Raymond Adams alluded to above.
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Obed, I’m reluctant to mention this, but do you think it’s possible that when you first tested the original guide set-up that you may have miss-threaded one of the guides? It is fairly easy to do with the small guides and I recall someone on this forum reporting it some time back. Although I would generally use less guides than you are, it doesn’t seem likely that by removin
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Bill, I think what you are saying relates to the “effective rod length” (reel to tip). Lengthening the grip length would shorten the “working” length of the rod. . I.E., if you build a rod with a 7 ½’ blank and you have a 12” grip, it’ll have a different action than it would with an 8” grip. It’s always puzzled me that rod length refers
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Gene, I assume you’re primarily interested in the height that a 14 guide would give you. You might consider bending the foot of a 12 to get additional height. I’ve been modifying the feet of Fuji TYSG (titanium) and BYAG’s (Alconite) by flattening the existing bend at the foot and re-bending to get another .15 to .20” of height. The foot ends up slightly shorter (about
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Mr. Gardner, I realize that I am not on the "cutting edge" nor a celebrated "expert". And, not only my “comments”, but “I” am a bit out dated (Ha). I guess you’re saying that even if a manufacturer believed he could get a lion’s share of the market (with a better performing rod*), he would not add guides regardless of the net financial
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Al, Bad typing is a badge of courage on this forum. If you can dispell some of the "old wives tales", go ahead. Rod builders are an opinionated bunch, but we're willing to hear all views....whether we agree or not.
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Obed, I don’t think line angle leaving the guide is not inconsequential…it’s relative. We want the line to conform to the curve of the blank with as few guides as necessary to control the line and at the same time retain the properties of the blank. I’ve done a few experiments myself, but found that to be conclusive, on the water, “real world” usage had to
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