Bill, in seeing the 2nd photo, it doesn’t look like it’s loaded that much. I can only assume one (or more) of the following: A. Because of line touch, the blank (or line) suffered a catastrophic failure before additional load could be applied. (most likely) B. The girly-man applying the load was incapable of bending the heavy powered rod further. C. Before the rod could be furth
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Bill, you ask: “any reason not to use All Same Size Micros butt to tip?” I think what may warrant some consideration, is the moderation of the vector angle resulting from the level wind guides position on the reel, to the butt guide. It’s a “given” that the line is making directional changes before it even leaves the reel. Any additional course directions would bes
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To clarify my previous comment: “why reputable rod manufacturers wouldn’t add an extra guide or two IF the resulting performance would put them ahead of their competitors….etc” I meant to defend reputable rod manufacturers. I believe that IF the rod makers saw that adding another guide or two would better performance significantly over their competitors, they WOULD do it
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Bill, you asked specifically for some “impact of line touch” and although I alluded to friction on my previous rant, I think it has to be a consideration. If one was to imagine a cylinder formed by the inside diameter of any two guides, imagine the line flow approximately conforming to the envelope of that cylinder. Since monofilament or Fluorocarbon is stiffer and more likely to have
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I find this subject interesting and amusing. To me, it is one of the great myths of rod building. I’ve even heard stories of the line cutting graphite blanks in half! I can only speak for my experience, but in over 40 years in this craft, I’ve never had a problem of any kind, relating to the line touching the blank. I’ve always built with guides on top and the picture Bill sh
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Clint, That is an excellent question…I’d like to know that myself. I’m afraid that a definitive answer would be hard to get. It’s kinda like asking who makes the best pickup truck. Even though everyone knows it’d be Chevy, you’d never get the Ford or Dodge guys to admit it. LOL. I think there might be a handful of people that could answer your question, b
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Steve, There are several “systems” or “set-ups” referred to as “Micro Rods” (or “Micro Set-ups”, “Micro Technologies”, etc.) (Bill S. mentioned a few in this thread) that utilize the “micros” as the common denominator. You can refer to the M&M Vol. 1 thru 5 threads on this forum. The “micros” do not require
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Denis, I think part of the problem coming up with a more fitting name for “micro rods” would be that they are not well defined to begin with. Unlike the “NGC”, the “micro rods” seem to run a wide range of configurations from simply utilizing micros as part of the guide train of a “conventional” system (NGC or otherwise), to a “System”
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The NGC is probably the best all-around guide set up for most rod builders. I think there are better set-ups for specific applications, but careful consideration should be given to the sought after advantages and the limitations of “better” set-ups. You can get better (or at least as good) performance out of other systems such as the so called “Micro Set-ups”, but usuall
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I recently built on a SC 5C66MHF-B and really like it. I thought the blank seemed a bit heavy (weight) and was surprised at how much weight was saved when I removed the finish. Not surprisingly, the blank underneath was ugly, LOL. Maybe that’s why St Coix and others don’t offer their blanks without finish.
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Just curious….if money was NOT an issue, what would be the best blanks (based on strength to weight ratio) in your opinions? Assuming of course, comparable power and action. “Value” would be a whole new issue.
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Mo, I agree. Braids do seem to be far more forgiving than mono or fluoro. I still think it’s worth the effort optimize the set-up. The down side is that with the rod set up for braid, it does not perform well with mono, whereas, with the “normal” NGC, it’ll work for both….with a slight weight penalty.
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Roger, You’re right on all counts, but we’re talking about a very narrow scope of use here….namely 10 to 15 test braided line on a FW spinning rod. In fact, more specifically, a given reel, line brand, etc. You said, “Just use good judgment and use the right size guide and height for the particular rod, line being used, as well as the needs and wishes of the final rod
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Tom, I’m sure you’re right. My goal was to derive a set-up that would cast braid as well as my other rods using the NGC (hybrid) set-ups which had the larger (25, 12, etc) guides. Unfortunately, using available components was a limiting factor. One of the trade-offs I made to get satisfactory performance was trading height for size. The net gain being primarily weight. I did find
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Bill, Custom Tackle Supply and Fishsticks carries the “M” guides. I found that as long as I didn’t get “line slap”, The Fuji concept guides worked as well a the “M” guides. Tom, I agree, most any size will “work”, but I was looking for optimum performance and I saw a drop in efficiency when going from a 12 to a 10. Both were same height
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I found that the ring size was as much an issue as the height.
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The issue is not simply about “micro” guides. IT’S ABOUT USING SMALLER GUIDES FOR THE WHOLE SET-UP. It has often been said that we should use the smallest (lightest) guides that will do the job. Had Bob at Custom Tackle not shared his set-up (see M & M vol 5 spinning rods on page 13), I would never have thought to try a size 10 or 12 for a butt guide. He has stated and I ag
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Mike, Thanks for the search results, but I think most of those deal with “small” guides as the running guides. The set-up I refer to utilizes relatively small butt guides and transition guides as well as the so-called “micros”. I think the “conventional” thinking regarding guide set-ups might need re-thinking when it comes to braided lines.
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Bill, As part of my testing, I tried Stren Magnathin 12# test with a Batson “M” (BMLG12) type hi-frame guide (butt guide) and got significant line slap. From what I could see, the mono seemed to have a much larger spiral “envelope” compared to braid and the “smaller” butt guide appeared to be causing more choking or stacking ahead of the guide. Casting distanc
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Bill, I talked to Bob last week and he said others have experimented with it, but I thought it would be interesting if others would give feedback on their results on this forum.
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A little over a month ago, Bob McKamey at Custom Tackle Supply posted the results of his guide set-up using smaller guides (ref “M&M Vol 5 spinning rods”). I have done similar testing and I’ve gotten very good results. Although this set-up is comparable in casting distance to the NGC set-up, a significant/advantageous weight decrease is realized because of the much smaller
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I just tried it and it's still not working.
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Richard, My testing would suggest that the 27X choke guide placement would be irrelevant with braided lines. If you’ll unhide your email address (or send me an email), I’ll send you a copy of my test notes. I wonder if anyone else has done their own testing since this tread first got started.
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Alex, The world of fishing is wrought with theories…..having said that, I believe two of the conditions we try to solve for when fishing crankbaits is: One, being the fact (?) that Bass (or any other fish) will often chase prey (or intruders) and nip at the tails. These would be the ones that are apt to be lightly hooked. Obviously, a strong hookset or stiff actioned rod would be more like
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No. 1. I'm just curious as to whether anyone is still watching this thread now that it is so far down in the stack? No 2. FWIW, I did my own testing and got results similar to Bob McKamey when using smaller guides.
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Custom Tackle Supply and Mudhole that I know of.
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Andrew, I’m using the TLSG3.5’s and I doubt that there’s any difference as far as bending strength compared to the LSG’s. Being so small and close to the blank, they really aren’t as subject to bending as taller guides. I also use a 3.5 for a tip-top, which is more subject to bending, but haven’t had a problem. The foot length looks to be the same. I hav
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Bill in WV, Although we don’t always make very long casts while fishing, it is a useful measure of a rods efficiency while setting up the guides and test casting.
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The results (thus far) of my tests has shown that the use of smaller butt and transition guides casts as well as the “normal” NGC system. The primary advantage is the subsequent weight savings of the guides. The disadvantage would be the versatility of using other line choices (mono and fluorocarbon). The critical factor in setting up the guides is a “balance” of the butt
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