Greetings -

I have a 6 foot blank (GF760L), that for several reasons not relevent to this question, I need to shorten to about 5' 8". I don't understand how the action would be changes by the removal of the 4 inches from the "top" or from the "butt". Can someone help me understand what the difference in the action would be after I shorten the blank and how that will change depending on which end of the rod gets cut?

Thanks in advance for your education!

Regards,
John Esler

I might be wrong, but since the "action" of a rod is determined by where the blank flexes. If you cut from the tip end, you have, in effect, shortened the distance from the tip to the flex point making the action a little faster. If you cut from the butt,, the flex point has now been moved closer to the butt, making it a little slower! Keep in mind that my theory may be completely out of whack. IIf you divide the blank into 3 sections, Fast action being where the flex point is in the upper 1/3 of the rod, Moderate action flex point in the upper half and slow being where the flex point in the lower portion, you can get an idea of the results. Again, I may be completely off base here

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Shortening from either end will make the action slower.
I would cut it from the butt side.

I have a chart that has some info on the subject. Email me
or unhide your email address & I will send it to you.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond is on the money - cut it from either end will result in a slower action.

Cutting from the tip will increase the casting lure weight range by a bit. Cutting from the butt will reduce the overall fish fighting power.

...................

Good thing that I said I didn't really know.

Tom,
Curious, if you removed from the tip, wouldn't that, in effect, move the flex point closer to the tip??

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

John,

I suggest you remove most from the butt as has been said, however, if you're wanting a little more tip power like Tom suggested, taking a little from the tip can be a big plus as well. You can try this: Take one inch from the tip, then 2" from the butt. Toy with the rod and see if you like the change and then decide if another inch from the tip or butt as needed.

If you're totally happy with the tip power the rod has BEFORE any cutting, take the entire 4" from the butt!!!

DR

Ray, is that the Cliff Hall chart? I just wen tlooking for it adn couldn't find it?

Ray,
Could you send it to me also!! Thanks!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Like the man said on a thread yesterday by Bobby Feazel - just move the rubber bands and check it out before whacking!

Yes, it's the chart that Cliff made.
Emails on the way in a moment guys.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond, would you please email me the chart that helps with this decision? Didn't know I was blocking my email address, but I changed it. If it doesn't show up yet, my email address is EslerJJJ@AOL.COM.

Thanks,

John Esler

Mike,

No, the AA will drop. Think about it - you are reducing the difference in taper between the butt and the tip. The greater the taper the faster the action. The less taper you have, the slower the action.

.................

Light Bulb!!!!!!! Thanks, Tom!! I completely disregarded the taper part, DUH!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Ray,
Would you mind sending it my way as well. My email adress is unhidden.

Thanks,
Robert

John,
General rule of thumb - cut the tip and you make a pool cue.
Cut the butt, and you have a great action wonderful - just shorter rod.

Unless you have a very very very very good reason, I would never cut the tip of a rod. For most rods that are noted for being sensitive, about 90% of that sensitivity comes from the 3 inches nearest the tip. Lose any of that part of the rod, and the sensitivity goes down proportionatily.

Now, if you do have a rod, that has too light an action, depending on the blank, you can trim a bit from the tip to increase the power.

However, rather than cut the tip, I would suggest that you tie a guide or hook keeper down from the tip that you want to trim, and then check the action of the rod.
If I am increasing a medium light rod to a medium action, I will likely only trim in 1/4 inch increments. It is remarkable how quickly a rods action can change with very very small changes in tip length.

Conversely, unless the butt section has a huge taper - you can generally cut inches from the butt without appreciably changing the rod. - just making it shorter.

Conversely, if you have a rod that is too short, it is pretty easy to extend the butt - up to about 12 inches or so, with very little difference in the overall action of the rod, except that it is longer.
If, in particular, you extend the butt by placing a LARGER section of blank over the current blank, the action will change very little. Also, by going with a blank section that is larger than the butt section, you can do the extension with only the over blank and not having to add another internal plug. Just let the over blank - extend over the current blank by about 4 inches.

Take care
Roger

Roger,
I guess we either disagree or are using different terms or different definitions of the same terms.

I just had a rod returned with 12 1/2 inches broken from the tip end. The break was right level
with the ring of a single foot high framed guide. At the moment all I have done is to remove that
guide and place a new tip-top. I may end up doing a complete repair of the break but for now it
is what it is. While this rod is a far cry from what it was before. What it is not is less sensitive or
more powerful.

We recently discovered on a prior thread that many builders and different definitions regarding
sensitivity.
[www.rodbuilding.org]

But one thing is certain. One cannot increase the power of a blank by removing material.
Simple as that.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Action has nothing to do with power, speed, recovery, etc It is nothing more than the initial point where a rod flexes in relation to lenggth of rod. Fast=upper 1/3 of blank, Moderate=upper half, Slow equals lower half. There would be no light action, only light power. As far as action, trimming a blank (either end) slows the action, where extending a blank will aleays make the action faster. I regularly extend blanks to make them faster for verical jigging for walleye and perch fishing. Extend a fast action blank by 6" and you end up with an EXTRA fast rod. I do it all the time. When you extend as blank, you move the flex point further away from the butt. I think that action and power are being used in a wrong context here. There is no medium or light action but there is medium and light power

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I don't buy for one minute that; "About 90% of that sensitivity comes from the 3 inches nearest the tip"

Steve and Ray,
I guess that we will have to respectfully disagree.
Also, mike is right - with respect to my incorrect use of power and action.

Many of my customers are walleye fisherman who demand a very sensitive rod for detecting the very light bites of the walleye.

In the case of Ray, if one of my customers had a medium light power walleye rod and broke off 12 1/2 inches - that same rod would now be a useless pool cue with the action of an anchor.

Conversely, in the case of Steve, if you had the same medium light power walleye rod and broke off 3 inches of that rod - you would likely have a medium or medium heavy rod - rather than the desired medium light rod.
Also, the rod would no longer be an extra fast jigging stick, but with the bulk of the extra fast portion of rod breaking - would rather be a moderate or even slow action rod.

I have no problem with disagreeing, but just talk to some folks who have had very nice jig sticks and then talk to them how they like their rod after having had a inch to 5 inches broken off the rod and then having retipped the broken blank.
Not good things to be heard from any of them.

However, I do respect everyones opinion.

Take care
Roger

Thanks all, for clarifying the terms "action" and "power". I use those terms casually and there is more to the meaning than I often intend. I'm favoring taking the material off the butt.

Great advise and experience as usual.

Cheers,

JE