Looked into the archives, and I see a lot of chatter about Recoils grooving, but no actual proof. Does any rodbuilder have actual proof, like a photograph of a rod they built which grooved, or have a guide they had to replace which was grooved?

I find it odd that people are saying they groove, tehy groove, but I havnt' seen a shred of evidence to verify this. Is there some sort of guarantee fom REC in the event they do groove you can get your money back?

Billy, I've wondered the same thing myself.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

The only thing I've seen grooved with the fly tiptop. Didn't think of taking a picture at the time, just put on a new tip top, the rod was fished a lot and all guides have a service life, never thought of any warranty the guide as they aren't any harder than a stainless guide from what I understand. Just put a full set of spinning guides on my CTS 3 piece rod a few months ago, the one I built for my fishing partner I put on a Fuji Ti/SiC tip top just in case. I guess now time will tell.

Billy,
I have never seen a plain wire guide no matter the base material or coating that will not groove. When using mono fishing line the guides do not groove as bad but if your intention is to use braid they will over time. When you are fishing where the fish run 100 to 200 yards the braid produces more heat than the guide can dissipate which causes the grooving. To see how much a Recoil or other guide will withstand. Take a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel and try to cut a Recoil guide in half. Now take a SIC ceramic guide and do the same thing. That ought to be all the proof you need.

Micheal, I don't doubt what you are saying. FOrtuantely my fish don't run but 3 or 4 feet, lol - so I'm left to "worry" about teh guide grooving when I crank fish up over and over. REgardless of what test I could perform to groove them...these have been out for several years now, and I'm sure used much more frquently and harder than I"ll use them. I'm just owndering if any of the people who have built rods with REcoils either for themselves or others have ACTUALLY seen them groove, in spite of what we think will happen.

One way to find out is possibly call Loomis and ask what their warranty policy is regarding their top of the line GLX with recoils grooving. And then ask how often that happens. My guess is less than we'd think.

Mo

Hi Billy, I've got recoils on an FT905 that I built for myself recently. The tip ring is starting to groove but I do use the rod for distance casting practice on grass. I will try and get a photo up soon if possible. Never posted a photo on this site before so bear with me!!

Daniel

Daniel - only the tip grooved, none of the guides right? There' sa post inteh archives where Emory mentiones that a possiblity is the smaller guides have less surface area and tht causes more friction, accelerating the wear due to heat build up.

Mo, that's a good idea...I never thought I'd call Loomis for anything, but this is a perfect opportunity.

I started fly fishing as a youngster in about 1945 and have seen many fly rod tips grooved by fly lines on my early hand me down rods. These were well made rods of that time and I would be bet that guide steel was of good quality. Fly lines don't produce the heat or normally carry the abrasive particles of present day braid but almost any fly rod having many years of heavy usage will have evidence of wear on the tip top.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

As far as fly rods, I personally have seen RECOIL tip tops and several single foot guides groove up after one year of use. These rods were guide rod used by clients on the Kenai River. The Kenai River is a glacial river whcih has an untra high content of rock flower in it. Rock flour is ultra fine glacial silt. The silt is carried by the water which goes through the guides and grooves them up. No I do not have any pics, but will take some in the next couple of months.

Paul

I've been thinkiing about building a new rod for myself utilizing Recoils for the butt and running guides, but using a Sic for the TT. I wonder if a setup such as that would work?

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

I do this with the float rods I build Doug, it works great with that rod style. I use sics or similiar for the first two butt guides, then Flexlites up to the tip top, then for the TT a SIC. Good luck.

Paul

Yes, I think that SIC on the tip and butt would get around a lot of the problems as the tip gets the most wear.

However, since some of the recoil guides are just so lightweight (which is what I want), I'm looking into semi-permanent guide attachment method that will allow me to replace the recoils as they wear.

Mo

Reading the REC site, says recoil guides are nickel titanium. No Rockwell numbers given, but titanium is not very abrasion resistant and it galls easily.

Dave...

I agree with your statement. The Titanium alloy in the REC's are soft-the guide feet can easily be prepped with file.


MO-
I know I rant about these guides, but you have to try Janns Netcraft Flex-lite with teh TiCh finish. The semi-permananet method you use would go away with the use of these guides. Maybe not with braid-but definitly mono.

paul

All of the Loomis GLX rods that I have seen with Recoils come with a SIC tip. I would suspect this means something...

-Steve

Tampa, FL

The Recoil tips are ugly to boot. I don't trust them. The guides I love on fly and spinning rods. But, I personally only use titanium tips with SiC inserts.

Not a "real world" test under normal conditions but I attacked a recoil guide
and a zirconium ringed guide with a file and could have cut the recoil in half
while the zirc wasn't hardly scratched. Pics are in my gallery and have been
for quite some time.

Billy, you saw the pic and posted there.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Yeah, but look what I said. That's why I asked this question. I also read your comment on the REC site.

Yeah,,,, titanium is fairly soft stuff.
Now you might be able to check with plating places and see if someone can hard chrome plate the stuff. Good hard chrome is pretty tuff (not the stuff used on car trim and bumpers).

BTW,,,, titanium is also a poor heat conductor. So if you have heat from abrasion, it will pile up more at that spot rather than dissipate. Which is why it galls easily in machining
Soon as you get thru whatever plating REC is using, which sounds like nickel, it probably begins to wear fairly easily,,,,, with galling creating additional roughness which then increases friction



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2007 12:23AM by Dave Hauser.