I saw a video recently where someone added weights to the butt of a rod to make it more balanced. He inserted some cylindrical weights to the butt end of the blank secured with pro kote paste. He inserted a 3/8 oz and 1 oz weights in the video.

What are your thoughts on this method? Is this a legitimate thing?

Here are a few conversations that discuss adding weight to a rod .




[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[www.rodbuilding.org]

I build bass fishing rods exclusively. I can’t imagine adding weights to one. But, maybe it’s a thing large surf rods, or the like. I only say that because 1 & 3/8 oz worth of weight seems like a lot.

Not for me and probably never will be. I'd prefer to search for different components or even a different blank manufacturer to help balance a rod before I'd ever add weight to a build. Reel choice makes a difference too. I've also noticed that 1 once barely moves the balance point 1/4 of an inch (with reel installed). I'll continue to maintain that an extremely light, but slightly "unbalanced' rod (whatever that really means) is still more comfortable to fish that a "balanced" rod that weighs significantly more. My experience is with bass fishing also.

Spent 60 years+ with longer, heavier and never a balanced rod in my hands and have done just fine. I personally wouldn't even think about it till I knew I had absolutely nothing I could do to reduce weight everywhere else. I have seen way to many rods with weighted butts, and a guide system on them from the 80's.

I agree with those who don't add weights. I almost lost a casting rod overboard once when it torqued out of my hands due to the weighting I had added to the butt.

The best way to balance rods, which are tip heavy in the first place if butt weight helps balance them, in my opinion is to use lighter reels and shorter rods. This way achieving balance results in an overall lighter rig, which is always advantageous.

It really depends on the technique you are fishing and desired result...

Many if not most of the anglers at the most recent fly fishing world championships used rods or reels with counterbalance weights on their contact nymphing setups.
I just paid a pretty penny, for a reel with four, ten gram counterbalance weights; and I am in general a gram counter and shun extra weight at all costs.
Once I felt the difference with the extra weight, I couldn't go back...

With that said, I don't think you could pay me to add weight to any of my bass rods...

You might want to listen the Anglers Resource podcast from last week with guest Rich Forhan. Rich discusses rod balance and what it does and does not do in actual fishing situations. Whether the technique you're employing calls for a "tip up" or "tip down" presentation should play a role in what you decide.

I build my rods to be as light as possible and let balance fall where it may. The advantages of having the lightest possible rod for any technique outweigh the balance issue far and wide. But that's just my preference. You may decide different.

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Tom,
Where can I hear that podcast.
Looked for it on the AR site
Herb

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
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> Tom,
> Where can I hear that podcast.
> Looked for it on the AR site
> Herb

Herb - checkout this thread... [www.rodbuilding.org]

I too am a bass fisherman. And for rods I use for semi slack line techniques, I will absolutely add weight to the butt of a rod in order to achieve the degree of balance I am looking for.

John, if you're talking about a 1 oz difference in reel weight barely moves the balance point, you're absolutely right. But if you're talking about adding 1 oz to the very butt of the rod barely affecting the balance point, I have to disagree. I have one particular rod I added 1 oz to the butt of it and it made a rather large difference in the rods' balance point. How tip heavy the rod is, is going to determine how much weight affects its' balance point. The rod I referred to wasn't very tip heavy at all.

And Michael? How is a lighter reel going to make balance better? It makes it worse because you've lightened the load on the opposite side of the fulcrum from the lever arm. That's not my opinion. That's physics.And yes you could use a shorter rod. But shorter rods are less sensitive. Right? Not to mention that a longer rod results in more rod tip speed which is very beneficial in casting and hook setting performance. And a longer rod is more beneficial for some techniques versus a shorter rod. Flipping immediately comes to mind.

As far as Tom's statement "The advantages of having the lightest possible rod for any technique outweigh the balance issue far and wide" Depending on how tip heavy of a rod you're dealing with, the complete opposite is true.

And BTW, I listened to the podcast with Mr Forhan as the guest. In it he mentioned that if you perform the flipping technique correctly (the correctly thing made me laugh) that you don't need to balance the rod because your left hand goes to the rod. He talked about Gary Klein a lot. And also mentioned Dee Thomas. Well, I guess Gary is the only one that flips correctly, because I have watched a couple on the water Youtube videos where they were flipping with Dee Thomas. And the "father of flipping" left hand never touches the rod. Mr Forhan also mentions his power hand fishing, or something like that, book that he wrote. I find his feelings on that are debatable as well. It was an interesting podcast though. I didn't know Gary Loomis used to work for Lamiglass.


Anyhow ...... if you think adding weight to the butt of a bass rod or any rod for that matter, is a bad idea. That's fine. But it seems to me that some of you are reaching for straws with some of the stuff you're saying


And Ryan..... after my little rant you may not be interested in my opinion, but I will offer it if that's ok.

As to your questions. The method you described of adding weight that you saw in the video, is exactly how I do it when I need to add weight to the butt of the rod. Although, I will say that it offers challenges if you ever want to change, or remove the weight. But if you're never going to change the reel on the rod you add the weight to, It will present no problems at all. The reason I like adding it inside the butt is that the rod looks completely normal. And it adds no length to the rear grip of the rod, like an add on weight system might add. I will never be changing reels on the rods I've counter balanced, and I will never want to take the weight out, so the method works for me. It may not for you.

You ask if it's a legitimate thing.I assume you mean is adding weight a legitimate thing. If so, it most certainly is. Especially if you're talking about a rod that will be used for flipping and pitching for bass. Yes the rod weighs more. But if you're dealing with a tip heavy rod, the rod will fish lighter. There are other benefits as well. Flipping and pitching is more efficient with a tip light rod, versus a tip heavy rod, because the lighter tip is more easily accelerated. It will be less fatiguing to use because it will put less strain on the smaller muscle groups in your wrist and forearm. The added weight to the rod itself is carried by the larger muscle groups of your upper arms and shoulders. And, your rod will feel more sensitive and you'll be able to feel certain types of bites better, because you'll find you don't have to grip the rod as firmly. I will say that while I have never had a rod almost jump out of my hand because of the weight I added to it, like Michael did. if it's a rod that you'll be using as an all around bass rod, I would reconsider adding weight to the butt. I am speaking specifically about rods used for flipping and pitching for bass, or other semi slack line techniques.

But don't take my word for it. Go out and try it for yourself. Tape weight to the very butt of your rod and reel combination until the balance feels right in your hand. Then take the weight off and go out and fish with it for a while. After a while tape the weight back on the butt of the rod and fish with it. Have a few extra weights with you and see if adding more weight makes it better, or worse. See if you like it. If not, what are you out, but a little bit of time. At least you'll have tried it for yourself.

I think a lot of people agree that a tip heavy rod, for bottom contact fishing, is a bad thing, but I’ve never had to add weight to accomplish not having that. Personally, I’d scrap a rod before I’d add an ounce of weight to it. I go the extra mile to shave the last fractions of an ounce away, so no way I’m willing to add an ounce back - but that’s just me. Maybe it’s the components I use, the high quality blanks, and the use of micro/macro guides, but, so far, adding weight has not been necessary. Also, I have played with what effect weight does even at the butt, and it really still doesn’t move the balance point much (with reel installed). Reels just weigh too much for minor weights to influence the balance point.

If you decide to add weight to the rod, Only add the weight at the extreme butt end of the rod.

Never put weight up the inside of the rod blank.

By putting weight up the inside of the rod blank, you are doing very little to balance the rod, but you are doing a magnificient job in making the rod heavier.

It is all about balance and lever arm. When you put weight up the inside of rhe rod, the further up the rod you put the weight, the shorter the lever arm to balance the rod.

By and large, the weight of the reel has very little to do with balancing a rod.

The reason for that is for many rods, you are effectively holding the reel in your hand when you are fishing and thus have 0 lever arm for balancing purposes. Sure you have a lighter or a heavier setup with a different weight reel, but the difference does little to balance the rod.

If you do have to add weight to a rod, especially on a temporary basis, pick up a long butt cap that will fit over the current butt of the rod with space in the butt cap to add weight. This will put 100% of the added weight out past the current rod butt and thus, give you the maximum lever arm with minimum added weight.

But, today, if I want a perfectly balanced rod and can not achieve balance by the use of the lighter blank and the lighter guides, I will simply use a longer rod, and will move the reel up the blank to achieve balance. Then, when casting, the rod will be perfectly balanced. If you use both hands when casting, the forward reel position is actually an aid to give you longer casts, even though the reel is further forward.

Your rods, your choices.

To lighten the rod tip, use as few and as light guides as possible especially in the tip section that will make the rod tip heavy with larger heavier guides and too many guides in the area of the tip.

Best wishes

John, I respect your opinion of rather not adding weight to a rod, As far as scrapping a rod before you'd add an ounce of weight to it ..... the rod I mentioned when speaking about how much adding 1 oz to the butt of the rod affected its' balance point, is a rod I built on an SJ 736 X ray blank. I used Fuji T2 black titanium guides with SIC rings. The finished rod prior to adding the weight to it, weighed 3.75 oz. I personally would call that very light considering the length and the power of the rod. I didn't add the weight because the rod was extremely tip heavy. In fact itt was barely tip heavy at all. I added the weight because the weight makes the rod perform better. And IMO, it makes the rod more sensitive in detecting certain types of bites.

So I added the weight to increase the performance of an already very high performing rod.

I have three rods I use for flipping and pitching. I've added 2 oz of weight or more to the butts of all three of them, to make them tip light. And when I say tip light, I mean the rod will be at a 45 degree angle as it rests in my hand, with my hand directly under the reel. Most certainly the rods are heavier, but they fish very light.

Anyhow ...... in an in general statement kind of way ..... I respect the opinion of anyone who feels adding weight to a rod to balance a rod and reel combination, is a bad idea. Again, all I'd suggest is that if you're suggesting ways to avoid needing to add weight, that you at least have well reasoned suggestions.

In the case of long spinning rods (9 '+ steelhead rods). putting the reel seat closer to the butt moves the balance point towards the butt as well. This makes for a less tip heavy feel to the rod when held at the fore grip near the balance point. With practice, casting distance isn't compromised if the rear grip doesn't get shorter than 6.5" with a down-locking reel seat. After the cast your hand moves to the fore grip (about 6.5" as well) balance point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2023 05:18PM by Ross Pearson.

Mr. Forhan has probably had more influence on modern bass rod design than any fisherman in history. I would listen to what he has to say on balance.

I look forward to the Anglers Resource podcast featuring Mr. Baylor.

The only way you'd ever have a rod that is severely tip heavy is to have a VERY long rod. The amount of weight required to balance that sort of thing would be VERY significant. So much so, that you'd likely not care for the overall weight of the rod in that instance. This is why surf rod anglers rarely bother trying to balance their long (9' plus) rods. The amount of weight needed to do it just isn't practical.

I don't know what length and type rod you're working with. So the best thing for you to do is just try it. You can easily tape on the required weight to balance your rod where you want it. Go fish with it. If you like it then make the weight addition permanent. If not, take the weight off. I'm betting you'll take the weight off, but you should try it and decide for yourself.


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Mike, if the tone of the portion of one of my prior posts concerning Mr Forhan leads you to believe that I don't respect the man, or his contributions to bass rod design, you are sadly mistaken. His stature doesn't mean that even a nobody like me can't question his assertions. Because I don't perform the flipping technique the way he described, I'm performing it incorrectly? Simply because he is a giant in the industry, I have to take his word as the gospel? It's probably pretty safe to say that some of his innovations went against the grain of giants in the industry.

Tom Kirkman was mentioned quite a few times in that same podcast, and I have questioned and vigorously debated certain points with him in threads on this forum. That doesn't mean I don't respect him or acknowledge his contributions to the industry. But I am allowed to question him, and even a nobody like me is allowed to say that he is wrong on some of his assertions. A case in point would be the back and forth Tom and I have had in various threads about whether it is correct to call some of what we feel through our fishing rods, vibrations.

Tom is a giant in the industry. Tom? Because you're well respected and a giant in the industry, does it mean I can't disagree with you? Or if I do something differently than you, does it mean I am doing it incorrectly?

Anyhow ....I'd love to stay and chat, but I need to get busy. I had two OG finish X ray blanks arrive yesterday, so I have some sanding to do. That, and I gotta start working on coming up with a podcast title. I'm thinking of something like "talking fishing n stuff with Mr Nobody. The title would be my way of paying homage to Kelly Bundy for her local access cable TV show that went Hollywood, and a voice only character from the classic TV show, Lost in Space.

It's been fun .....

You're certainly free to question me, but in return surely I'm free to respond. And on this point, I was responding to the OP and telling him to try the balance thing for himself. More guys need to trust themselves and just try things and see how they work. One thing Rich has always said is that guys should try things. I you like it, use it. If you don't, discard it. I agree with that viewpoint.

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Good point, Tom. Since we all don't have the same opinions on what makes good performance it is unlikely that we all will have the same solutions or designs. Trying it out and doing it the way one likes it makes sense.