My last few builds I've paid a lot more attention to the balance point of the rod. In order to really get one to balance (we're talking about split grips here), I'd have to put the reel so high up on the rod that it would not suit me well at all. My solution has been to either ignore it and use a slightly off-balance rod (we're talking about a few inches once the reel is on), or to put lead either in the butt or actually inside the butt of the blank itself and tape + epoxy the weight in place before installing the butt. The butt is actually the last thing that goes on.

How important to you bass guys find it to balance a rod in this fashion, particularly when every other aspect of your build has been with weight savings in mind (high modulous blanks, micro guides, spiral wrap, etc.)? Seems a bit silly to cut a few grams here and there only to put 3/4 of an oz of lead in the thing in the end. However, I very much enjoy fishing with a perfectly balanced rod, especially when I'm worm fishing or jerkbait fishing. I'm sure I'd like it just as much for cranking and spinnerbait fishing. A grip point behind the balance point means you're swinging extra weight with every movement of the wrist, and I have to think that has a dampening effect on sensitivity - especially when bouncing a finesse jig or texas rig with a high rod tip.

Do you guys add weight to balance your rods? If so, do you have a preferred method of doing so?

Kyle,
I have blanaced rods in the past, but not so much any more.

The method that I use for balancing is very simple. I basically balance the bare blank with lead wrapped around the butt of the blank before starting any build on the rod. I have built enough with enough different setups, so I know how much lead is needed for a perfect balance with a given weight reel, handle length and guides.

I use 1/2 inch wide lead tape. This tape - (one excellent vendor is 3M) - has adhesive on one side. So, I just start wrapping and continue to wrap until I either get to a diameter that is just a bit smaller than the butt cap, or to the balance point of the blank.
If I need more than I can get with one set of wrapping with the 1/2 inch tape, I will do a 2nd wrap in front of the first wrap. Again, I am sure to not exceed either the diameter of the butt cap or the rear of the handle if the handle goes to the back of the rod.

However, in recent years, I have found that it generally works about as well to simply use a slightly larger reel to balance the rod. With most reels, the weight of the reel has an effect on nearly all rods. If I want a well balanced rod, and can't get it with a small reel that I might use; I will just go to a slightly larger reel to obtain the necessary balance.

Another nice advantage of this method of weight balancing, is that there is 0 change in the appearance of the rod, and if you really want to remove the weight, simply remove the butt cap, remove as much or as little weight as you want; make up the difference wiht masking tape and put the butt cap back on the rod.

Never never never put weight up inside the blank. The inside diameter is generally so small that you can not get a concentrated weight near the butt of the rod. A person keeps adding more and more weight that is further and further up the rod so that eventually you end up with a balanced rod that has had several ozs of weight added to balance.
If you do have to blance, try to put concentrated weight as far aft as possible on the rod. If you want, you can install one of the balancing kits that are available at some cost. That is one of the reasons that if needed, I will use the lead tape method simply it achieves the weight balance at very little cost.

Good luck
Roger

[www.amazon.com]

Unless a tip light rod is strongly desired for bite detection, (not my preference, but some like it that way) I would not add weight to balance the rod, particularly on a high modulus blank. The exception would be a heavy flipping rod where you need to lift a heavy lure repeatedly throughout the day.

My tinkering has shown me that the addition of weight to the butt will have an effect easily felt in the hand. The damping time for the blank increases, and not as much detail will be felt. It's just not nearly as crisp feeling.

If weight must be added, it should be done so without changing the ergonomics of the handle. To get the most effect for the weight added, the weight should be added beyond the butt of the rod blank. About an ounce of steel washers, or about two ounces of lead, can be hidden under a standard 0.75" ID butt cap without altering the length of the rear grip. By keeping a tenon that fills the butt cap, the rod can be fished with or without the extra weight.

A well built slightly tip heavy rod doesn't bother me, but a rod that feels like I'm lifting a load of bricks may bother me enough to make the tradeoff.

Joe

Roger, we were typing at the same time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 09:40PM by Joe Vanfossen.

Another Perspective For Competitive Bass Anglers.:

Do not push reel seats out to balance for tournament anglers - they get sensitive when the fish swim away!

Do not add weight unless the angler simply can not fish with the rod without tiring

Build as light as possible -

Take a look at old threads on this forum - do a search on balance and change the dates to all -

Use quick change removable and adjustable weights when necessary - to "float tip up with an eight foot flip stick requires a four ounce counter weigtht.

Sample of rods that can be fished in all configurations:

Click on: [www.rodbuilding.org]

If used for spot use during the day leave the counter in your pocket - If you have to flip all day put it on when needed.

Click on: [rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2012 08:14AM by Bill Stevens.

Kyle's question may stem from a wrap he did for me. While I was recovering from surgery, he completed a rod I had begun. I had installed the handle and as a part of that I used about 3/8 ounce of sinker epoxied inside the butt of the blank. I have used this method on my rods before and since. I find a small amount of weight shifts the bare rod balance point significantly without adding appreciable weight. Oddly, this result is even more noticeable in the higher modulus, lighter blanks.

The addition of guides and handle to a blank change the total weight of a rod, but the majority of that weight is behind the desired balance point. The end result on upper end rods is that very little weight is needed to turn the tip neutral. The sinker I glue in does that and the feel in the hands is far better.

I am not prepared to argue whether weight glued at one end adversely affects sensivity. Seems to me the handle assembly and guides would have more effect than a weight that exists below where one holds the rod. However I am not a physicist.

Randy,

You are correct assembly techniques and guide train selection have a larger impact on the ability of the rod to transmit vibrations. Vibrations are very sensitive to the boundary conditions, and when you hang say 10%-60% (ball park estimate) of the unbalanced rod's total weight at one of the boundaries, you can expect a change in the way the rod behaves. Whether the change is enough to keep you from balancing is up to you.

The rods that I used for test purposes are a pair of cheap superstore rods, built on a surprisingly nice blank (with poor construction techniques). One was left in factory form, while the other was stripped and rebuilt to my specs (9.25" split EVA rear grip, micro guides, trimmed exposed blank seat, removable balancer cap). While the blank is fairly light the mass distribution required a full ounce to ounce and a quarter to bring it to about tip neutral. Giving the rods a crude sensitivity test by rubbing the tip lightly across carpet, will show a significant difference between the factory rod and the rebuilt rod without extra weight. The difference between the factory rod and the rod with the extra weight is much less significant. I know the test isn't quantitative, but it's a good qualitative test that can show a client quickly the differences between factory and custom in hand, including an extra feature or two, and that's a good thing.

The great thing about a custom rod is that it is CUSTOM. Every choice made in a build comes with some tradeoff. As long as the owner of the rod understands what the tradeoffs are, and they are okay with the result, that is all that matters.

Joe

Joe,
I think it is most important before coming to any final decision about balance, is to put the reel on the rod that you would like to use on the rod.

The same goes true for any simple or complex sensitive tests.

Depending on the type reel being used, the addition of the reel can make huge changes in the overall feel and balance of the rod.

Good luck
Roger

Joe: I have not compared using a removable weight. Of course I trust your measurement. I am surprised you found your test bed rods needed a full ounce. I have read the Tackle Tour rod war statistics which include a measurement for the balance point and these indicate a full ounce would not be needed. Was that a reel on measurement or reel off?

Roger,

I agree the reel choice matters, more so with spinning gear. The way I grip the rod, another important factor when considering balance, a heavier casting reel just makes the whole outfit feel heavier to me. For that reason, most of the casting reels I use regularly are pretty close in weight. They just 'feel' right to me. I wouldn't complain about a lighter reel, but a heavier reel just feels wrong. The variables of grip style and reel choice are more reasons that I like the idea of a variable balancing system as opposed to a fixed weight.

Randy,

The test bed rods are old Renegade rods from the late 90s that retailed for under $20. They were surpassingly light in factory form with a total build weight of about 3.9oz., and the blanks compare pretty favorably to the standard modulus rods that I've built in recent years. If the test bed rods were intermediate or hight modulus blanks, the weight distribution would have been a bit different. Based on how most of my 6'6"-6'10" intermediate and high mod rods feel, I suspect the weight required to balance them would be closer to 1/2oz. than a full ounce, as they are not very tip heavy at all. If my hands were large enough to palm a reel, moving the fulcrum point a little further up the rod, a couple of those rods would require little to no weight to become tip neutral.

Joe

Thanks Joe. Your final comments made sense to me.. I am looking for a balance point the shortest distance from a palm hold to fish. Naturally when I place my hand behind the reel to caast. I have changed to a grip farther back from the balance point - which is partly why I throw two handed overhand but wrist roll cast for short accuracy - which is a tip down move. Hmmm.