I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2023 EXPO
CCS Database
Custom Rod Symbol
American Grips Piscari
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
BackCreek Custom Rods
BatsonRainshadowALPS
CRB
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
DecalPrinters/LRTGROUP
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
HFF Custom Rods
HYDRA
Janns
My Rod Shop
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
REC Components
RodBuilders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
The Rod Room
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods

Pages: Previous123Next
Current Page: 2 of 3
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 29, 2022 04:27PM

I think Kevin makes a good point on putting a lot of thought into the spreadsheet fields up front.

I strongly suggest the power, action, line weight, and lure weight range be included. This will allow evaluation of how these subjective descriptors relate to the objective data. Also the length and weight would be nice.

Expanding the scope of this will mean more work for El, so he has to be on board, and adding fields will require those of us who have just provided the three values to go back and fill in the rest.

It's up to El.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: December 29, 2022 06:41PM

It took me all day to dig this out of my notes. Hope I didn’t make any transcription mistakes. I probably have more but can’t seem to find it.

NFC MB704 HM IP 550 AA 72
NFC MB705 HM IP 635 AA 75
NFC MB736 X-ray IP 668 AA 71
NFC SJ736 X-ray IP 793 AA 75
NFC SJ703 X-ray IP 343 AA 73
NFC SJ732 X-ray IP 422 AA 78
NFC SB724 X-ray IP 463 AA 74.5
NFC MB765 X-ray Neo IP 865 AA 77
NFC MB725 C6O2 X-ray IP 668 AA 75.5

GLoomis MB844C IMX IP 1061 AA 65
NRX MH72MHXF IP 792 AA 76

PB 691MLXF IP 528 AA 77
PB 691MXF IP 610 AA 76
PB 701MLF IP 572 AA 77
PB 701MF IP 685 AA 78
PB 701MHF IP 797 AA 78
PB731MLF IP 599 AA 73
PB731MXF IP 764 AA 80
PB731MHXF IP 826 AA 79
PB731HXF IP 947 AA 77
PB761MHF IP 908 AA 75.5
PB801MXF IP 632 AA 76

MHX MB783. IP 676 AA 74
MHX MB842 IP 525 AA 72
MHX MB843 IP 705 AA 74
MHX MB843-2 IP 645 AA 71.5
MHX MB844-2 IP 763 AA 66
MHX MB874 IP 1047 AA 71
MHX SJ843-2 IP 786 AA 75
MHX SJ813 IP 680 AA 75
MHX S841 IP 130 AA 66
MHX S842-2 IP 176 AA 68
MHX P844 IP 536 AA83
MHX HS9600-2 IP 368 AA 74
MHX SA1085 IP 524 AA 66
MHX ESPS81MXF IP 437 AA 76
MHX NSJ843 IP 741 AA 76
MHX NMB843 IP 565 AA 74
MHX NEPS78MF IP 400 AA 74
MHX NEPS78XF IP 602 AA 76.5

St Croix SCVS70MF IP 475 AA 72
St Croix SCVS66MF IP 425 AA 73
St Croix SCV70MH-2 IP 632 AA 70

RodGeek B470MF IP 611 AA 70
RodGeek B470MHF IP 818 AA 70

Elliot AP7MLF IP 394 AA 71
Elliot AP7MF IP 464 AA 72

Rainshadow ETES68MF IP 455 AA 74
Rainshadow IMMC72MF IP 847 AA 71
Rainshadow REVST90L-2 IP 190 AA 60
Rainshadow REVST83ML-2 IP 315 AA 79

PacBay T2SH993-2 IP 292 AA 80

CTS Jet Stream 9’ 6-15kg IP 533 AA 65.5

Carolina Cast Pro 1/2 - 1 1/2 IP340. AA 64
Century Weapon Jr. ISS905. IP 469 AA 68

AmTac Bushido SJ72 8-15 IP 671 AA 75.5

OEM SC84ML IP 346 AA 65
OEM SC84MH IP 434 AA 70
OEM SC86H IP 441 AA72.5

Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2022 09:43PM by Norman Miller.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 30, 2022 01:10AM

@MICHAEL I went through and highlighted differing results, I'll still hit you with an email though.

@NORMAN awesome, thanks! I'll put it in tomorrow at some point.

@ED thasmts what I thought but just wanted to double check, thanks!

@KEVIN I think that's a great idea, I had mentioned it before it heard previous attempts fell by the wayside due to upkeep etc. That's why I thought a thread would be helpful for search function and all that, but I still think a shared doc would be great. Easier and more complicated at the same time haha. If you wanted to get it going I'm certainly happy to help, perhaps we could find a 3rd member to take this on with us?

We should keep the fields to the essential identifiers and differentiators, and I think Michael has a great point about specs for comparison sake.
Manufacturer, series, blank name, blank wt, IP, AA, (I'm not familiar enough yet to see the vakue in ERN vs just posting the IP and AA), power, action, lure rating

NFC, HM, MB704, wt N/A, IP - 550, AA - 72 etc. Using "N/A" where applicable.

@EVERYONE SHARING DATA, Please just make another updated post of you go back and edit your data - otherwise it might go unseen and will be easier for me to keep track of changes. And even if you have data that's already been posted please share, if it's the same or different results it will still be helpful.

I think we're off to a really good start y'all, I think we're gonna build something nice here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 30, 2022 06:46AM

Where do I access the highlighted questionable data? thanks,

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 30, 2022 10:38AM

HI Michael, sorry I didn't add for clarity sake - in the first post I've added any blank discrepnecy directly under the first one I received (not that one is right and one is wrong obviously, just the order the were received in) with the "ALT" and set up like this >>>blank<<<

I added a space below it between the next blank for visual clarity.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Tim Scott (---)
Date: December 30, 2022 01:56PM

I would assume you could save as the one drive info to your desktop and add to it or cut and paste. Been a lot of years since I played with spreadsheets

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 30, 2022 02:06PM

El, how about sending me an email.

As I understand it all the data you have is now shown in the first post in this string, right? It is not identified by provider, right? So if I interpret your code for quesioinable data my entry for the NFC DS6100 is suspect? I don't right now recognize another of mine that is questioned.

thanks, Mick

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 01, 2023 01:51AM

In happy to continue to figure out a way to consolidate and upkeep a shared doc (Google doc or maybe a public drop box).

@MICHAEL I didn't mean to make it look like I was saying one of your bmdata points was "suspect" - only that there are differences between blanks. Nobody can be right or wrong since many manufacturers don't have published data and there is no baseline. If Mr. Blue says IP500 AA50 and Mr. Orange says IP234 AA90 for the same blank we can't really say one of them is wrong since the blank doesn't have published CCS data, and as you know just because it says MHMF doesn't mean it really is - at least relatively speaking when using CCS numbers.

Still gotta update the first post with data above, haven't actually had a chance yet.

Everyone else who has data please share.

Thanks yall!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 02, 2023 02:44PM

Finally got a chance to update the list, thanks NORMAN!

I will say there are quite a spread of results for some of these blanks, very interesting. Its either the measurements causing the differences or the actual blanks have been sent incorrect or have significant manufacturing variations.

@EVERYONE - please share your thoughts of equivalent relative terms for the data to convert into common rod speak using the following format:

CCS to relative terms:
Light: 201-300 grams
Medium-Light: 301-425 grams
Medium: 426-625 grams
Medium Heavy: 626-925
Heavy: greater than 926

Slow action: less than 50 degrees
Moderate-slow 51-55 degrees
Moderate: 56-60
Moderate-fast: 61-67
Fast: 68-76
Extra fast above 77

Anything below 200g ultra light? Where do MAG L, MAG M, and MAG H fit?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 02, 2023 05:51PM

Anything below 200g ultra light? Where do MAG L, MAG M, and MAG H fit?

Yes on ultra light.

I don't recommend getting any more designtions such as Mag L, Mag M , Mag anything else. The CCS specs will take care of the action with AA, and power is power regardless of power. Put too much in there and it becomes too complicated/comple/hard to understand. After all, what is it that makes a Mag a Mag? Stiff butt, limber tip, high AA?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Kevin Fiant (---.oh.cpe.breezeline.net)
Date: January 02, 2023 09:25PM

All - I started working on compiling all the data that has been posted in this thread (and also had links provided in this thread). Got all the big data sets from the external links and started going thru the posts entering by date. Last post I entered was Michael Danek's on 12/28/22. Also, I added my own data (mostly factory rods with just one recent MHX build. As I get time will continue to add in the remaining data. Note, I tried to get info into a format that would be fairly easy for people to do something with. I added a length column (in inches) and filled out best I could. I am not familiar with how all the different manufacturers code their lengths in the model name. Also, I didn't list any ERN higher than 16 since I didn't figure the fly rod guys would need anything above that and I didn't have a way to calculate it (I just used the Rosetta Stone thing in CCS info).

At some point if I get time I might be able to do a short YouTube video to show people how to get around in the Google spreadsheet doc.

If there is anyone interested in being able to edit/update data send me an email and I can send you an invite to be able to edit doc. Hint, Hint, Manufacturers feel free to email me!

It is all stored out on a Google Sheets doc that I made viewable to public so you should be able to view and do basic spreadsheet things like sorting/filtering. Anyhow, the link to that shared doc is:

[docs.google.com]

The hardest part in compiling all this in a spreadsheet was going back thru these posts and picking out all the data one by one. Below are my factory rods along with my first build. If possible, if people could enter their data in the same format separated by commas that would make data entry much easier. Below is my data in that format...

Manufacturer, Series, Model ID, Length (inches), IP (Grams), AA, ERN, Pieces, Factory Y/N

Cabelas,Tournament ZX,TZXC-71M-MOD,85,345,75,13.58,1,Y
Enigma,Titanium Gen2,EHPT69DS-ML-S,81,370,75,14.27,1,Y
Enigma,Titanium Gen2,EHPT72CB-M-S,86,380,73,14.55,1,Y
Kistler,KLX,KLX-SMT70MH,84,387.5,73,14.76,1,Y
Enigma,Enigma,EP2 72CB-MH,86,430,70,15.93,1,Y
Kistler,KLX,KLXSP761ML,90,432.5,76,16,1,Y
Enigma,Aaron's Edge,EAM611SJ-ML-S,83,550,77,16,1,Y
Daiwa,Procyon,PCYN701MFB,84,550,71,16,1,Y
St Croix,Rage,RS610MXF,82,550,78,16,1,Y
Lews,XD,LPM10XD,94,600,75,16,1,Y
Kistler,Helium 3,He3-SPLMH-70F,84,625,74,16,1,Y
St Croix,Mojo Bass,MJC68MXF,80,650,80,16,1,Y
Abu Garcia,Winch,IKECW710-6,94,655,71,16,1,Y
Fenwick,HMX,HMX70MH-FC-M,84,687.5,74,16,1,Y
Kistler,Helium LTA,MIC-HE70HC,84,787.5,71,16,1,Y
St Croix,Mojo Bass,MJC76MHMF,90,812.5,76,16,1,Y
Abu Garcia,Veritas,VTSC70-6,84,827.5,69,16,1,Y
Shimano,SLX,SLX74MHG,88,875,76,16,1,Y
Kistler,KLX,KLX765H,90,905,62,16,1,Y
Kistler,Helium 3,HE3-H-711MAD,95,930,65,16,1,Y
Daiwa,Kage,KAG741HXB,88,937.5,73,16,1,Y
Shimano,EXAGE,XAC72H,86,975,77,16,1,Y
Dobyns,Fury,FR795SB,93,1187.5,75,16,1,Y

MHX,MB,MB873,87,750,73,16,1,N

Probably the most important info is the: Manufacturer, Model ID, IP, and AA in my opinion.

I'll work on adding the remaining info in as I have time but headed back to work after the holidays so be patient :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Kevin Fiant (---.oh.cpe.breezeline.net)
Date: January 03, 2023 08:26AM

Hi all - another thing to mention if you try to view the Google Docs sheet in post above I'd recommend using a computer to view. Mobile device will open it but it is very hard to navigate around and find info you might be looking for.

El - if OK would you add the link to the Google Doc to the top of the thread? That might help folks that want to search for a specific piece of info. Thanks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 03, 2023 08:58AM

Great work, Kevin!

As Kevin suggested, I have downloaded/exported his spreadsheet into my computer and can manupulate it in Open Office and MS Excel, sorting is very powerful. This will allow me to change things if I think necessary without screwing up his spreadsheet.

This is going to be a great tool. Thank you Kevin and El for your work on this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Logan Summers (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 03, 2023 10:48AM

Factory Rods from Megabass measured by me. Note that I round to the nearest 25g when I make measurements to account for inaccuracies in my CCS rig and other differences. Just the way I do it. I am newer to building, but I measured the most of my Megabass rods because I intend to emulate some models with my own builds.

Format:
BRAND & SERIES | MODEL | IP IN GRAMS | AA IN DEGREES

Megabass XX Gen2 | Aklys F8-710XX | IP = 1225g | AA = 75
Megabass XX Gen1 | Perfect Pitch F7-72XX | IP = 1050g | AA = 80
Megabass XX Gen1 | Extreme Mission Type-F F5-75XX | IP = 750g | AA = 75
Megabass XX Gen1 | Spinnerbait Special F5-610XX | IP = 800g | AA = 75
Megabass XX Gen1 | Flat Side Special F4.5-70XX | IP = 600g | AA = 72.5
Megabass XX Gen1 | Jerkbait Special F4.5-68XX | IP = 600g | AA = 72.5
Megabass XX Gen2 | Shakeyhead F3.5-70XX | IP = 475g | AA = 70

Megabass USA Destroyer | Valdivia F7-76X | IP = 1025g | AA = 75
Megabass Black Jungle | Deep Crank & Slow Roll F5-71XBJ | IP = 700g | AA = 72.5
Megabass xXx JDM | Mat Bucker Type-L F6-611K | IP = 1050g | AA = 75
Megabass xXx JDM | Scramble Tour F2-68KS | IP = 325g | AA = 75
Megabass X4 | Oneten Stick F4-65X4 | IP = 425g | AA = 60
Megabass X4 | Seven Eleven FX-711X4 | IP = 675g | AA = 70

BLANK ONLY:
Hydra NG | FL955MF | IP = 1000g | AA = 70

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: January 04, 2023 12:25PM

I added the link to the first post, great job Kevin - I didn't see as many X-ray blanks in the doc as we have data for though.

Also @ALL DO YOU ALL AGREE WITH THE FOLLOWING OR HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS ON CORRELATING DATA?

CCS to relative terms:
Light: 201-300 grams
Medium-Light: 301-425 grams
Medium: 426-625 grams
Medium Heavy: 626-925
Heavy: greater than 926

Slow action: less than 50 degrees
Moderate-slow 51-55 degrees
Moderate: 56-60
Moderate-fast: 61-67
Fast: 68-76
Extra fast above 77

Please share if you agree or have a different suggestion for interpreting CCS into Rod speak

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Kevin Fiant (---.oh.cpe.breezeline.net)
Date: January 04, 2023 12:44PM

@EL - The Google Doc currently has compiled all the blanks listed on the RodCents.org site along with all the blanks listed from the OneDrive link. I added some of the blanks listed in this thread but haven't gotten thru all of them yet as it is the most time consuming part (compiling the info out of this thread). Anyhow, that is a work in progress.

Regarding classifying the CCS back into Power and Action Text I am indifferent on that as I will likely just use the numbers now that I have measurements on all my factory rods. To me, that could cause some confusion down the road because if someone mentions Medium Heavy, Fast Action are they referring to the CCS terminology or the Manufacturer terminology? So, to me, that just seems like an opportunity for confusion.

Anyhow, I think this is a good thread and hopefully folks will keep posting info as they get new measurements, etc...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: January 04, 2023 02:03PM

Okay gotcha! I wasn't trying to rush you or apply pressure, just something I noticed and wanted to check in about - that's a lot of similar looking stuff and easy to overlook a few things haha.

And part of the discussion relating CCS numbers to rod speak is to reduce some of the confusion by having consistent reference. Lews MH and Kistler MH can be very different, and the numbers are precise - but we all buy rods and blanks that say MH F which is why getting some traction with a consistent reference would be helpful for everyone - including the uninitiated. I haven't been able to set up any CCS testing area in my house yet, so I have asked before for a reference when purchasing blanks that have an IP of 600 and AA of 80 what that means in rod speak because I don't know what that looks like yet. Michael Danek had suggested those numbers above and I based a few blank purchases on that correlation versus just the numbers - because the numbers hold no real world reference for me.

I'm still not sure if I agree with those numbers since I haven't done any testing, but I trust Michael so I went for it and made the purchases, without his reference I would've been buying much faster blanks than I was looking for. Which is why I (and he in a previous thread) asked for others thoughts on it, I'm sure people have ideas and I would very much like to know what they think so I can gather their thoughts, take it all in, and filter it all through my experience.

Rod speak will never go away, but maybe we could add some clarity to it with the CCS data and start the revolution haha. If MH F meant 626-925 and 68-76 for more manufacturers than not we could all make more informed choices before purchasing. But as we see from the doc some MH are 1000 and others 6xx and that's a huge range and will perform vastly different.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 04, 2023 06:20PM

What the spread sheet should have is the CCS data and the manufacturer's subjective power and action descriptors (L/M/MH/H etc and Slow/Moderate/ModerateFast/Fast, etc) and whatever else is judged important. But the value will come when someone wants to know in objective terms how a blank will perform. For example, even though a blank is described as Medium power, if a blank has an ERN of only 12, the person searching for a blank will know that even though a blank is decscribed as medium power, it really is not what most would expect of a medium power. And he will choose a blank with an ERN more suitable.

Rod speak will never go away, but maybe we could add some clarity to it with the CCS data and start the revolution

That is exactly why I was proposing an agreed upon translation of "rod speak" into CCS specs. We are on the way to that. The nay-sayers are nay-saying, as one would expect, but I think the momentum is swinging towards a desire of builders to for once know the real power and action of the blanks they are buying . Thanks to you, El, and Kevin.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Kevin Fiant (---.oh.cpe.breezeline.net)
Date: January 04, 2023 08:41PM

Here is another rod I'm trying to finish up before my son heads back to college and then soon thereafter down to Florida for (3) different College Tournaments over Jan/Feb. Hoping it will work decent for throwing Chatterbaits/RattleTraps out in grass flats.

Anyhow, here is data:

Manufacturer , Series, Model ID, IP, AA

MHX, CB Blend, CB 907, 612.5, 74

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CCS Data Log
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.63.---)
Date: January 05, 2023 09:01AM

The MHX CB 907 is described as "heavy" power by MHX, IP 612.

The NFC CB 704 is described as "medium" power by NFC, IP 565. ~10 % lower than the MHX.

Both subjective descriptions cannot be right.

Point Blank calls their 731MXF "Medium" power at about 765 grams.

Interesting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: Previous123Next
Current Page: 2 of 3


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster