Hey all,

There are a lot of threads containing pieces of CCS data, a lot of questions often in multiple threads about CCS data, and many requests for a single reference log to find this data. Many people have expressed the desire for images that represent this data or at least reflect a rods bend profile under load, especially with consistency across similar spec'ed rods (MH VS MH with same weight erc.)

Since it appears many of you, if not all of you, want to have this data stored in an easy to find central location, I was hoping everyone could share all of their data here in this thread. I'll edit as we go and put all of the data together here in this post so nobody in the future will have to scroll through a hundred posts or search a hundred times trying to hunt down the blank CCS theyre looking for. Duplicate measurements will either confirm accuracy (so please share your data even if its already been shared) or I will put conflicting data together for reference. Then I'll create a keyword list for future searches so that for the next 10 + years everyone who comes to this site looking for CCS data on "x" blank they can actually find it more easily. Also if you have pictures of the test with the rod loaded (for CCS measurements) please share - let's work together to get what we want.


I'm hoping some people will share what they have for manufactured rods so that we can have something like a baseline for what the numbers represent with reference to mainstream rods. Some common rods with data here can help newbies more readily understand what an IP of 545 is relative (somewhat at least) to an IP of 689 if they happen to have that rod or access to handle it.

The more people that share and the more people share the better, even if you're new and only have data for one blank please share - you are valuable to this community and your contribution will be appreciated.

Also, even though it is purely subjective, please share your thoughts on how this data correlates to common terms for rod descriptions like MH Fast.

CCS to relative terms
Michael Danek:
Light: 201-300 grams
Medium-Light: 301-425 grams
Medium: 426-625 grams
Medium Heavy: 626-925
Heavy: greater than 926

Slow action: less than 50 degrees
Moderate-slow 51-55 degrees
Moderate: 56-60
Moderate-fast: 61-67
Fast: 68-76
Extra fast above 77

LINK TO GOOGLE DOC WITH ALL BLANKS LISTED AND MANY MORE! [docs.google.com]

_____________________________________________________
St. Croix and RodGeeks:

3S63MLXF: = IP = 350, AA = 82, ERN = 13.75 (extended 5 inches)
AC69MLXF: IP =358, AA =77, ERN = 13.95 (Avid series, bought off rack and reworked with micro guides)
5S66MF = IP = 402, AA = 70, ERN = 15.1
4S63MXF = IP =405, AA =75, ERN = 15.25
4C68MXF = IP =482, AA =77, ERN = 17.4
SCV610MXF (extended to 7'4") = IP = 578, AA = 80+, ERN = 20
SC3C70MHF = IP = 705, AA =70, ERN = 23.5 (reworked store bought rod)
Rodgeeks C47MF #1 450 16 72
Rodgeeks C47MF #2 500 75 17.8
Rodgeeks B466MF 450 72 16
St Croix SCV70MF 452 77 16.6
Rod Geeks B276MHM 473.0 64
Rod Geeks B476MHM 482.0 65
Rod Geeks C266MLF 424.0 78
Rod Geeks C270MLF 332.0 70
Rod Geeks C2SW70MLM 333.0 74
Rod Geeks C470MLF 304.0 72
Rod Geeks C4F908.4 178.0 75 9
Rod Geeks SG79HM 574.0 67
Rod Geeks SG79HM 609.0 70
Rod Geeks SRF100MMF4 930.0 65

St Croix SCVS70MF IP 475 AA 72
St Croix SCVS66MF IP 425 AA 73
St Croix SCV70MH-2 IP 632 AA 70

RodGeek B470MF IP 611 AA 70
RodGeek B470MHF IP 818 AA 70
____________________________________
NFC:

DS721 X-ray = IP =268, AA = 76, ERN = 11.8
>>>DS721 X-ray (ALT) - IP= 268.0, AA= 69<<<

DS6100 X-ray = IP = 275, AA = 78,ERN = 12
>>>DS6100(alt)IP=300, AA=78,ERN=12.6<<<

NFC MB705 HM IP 635 AA 75
NFC MB736 X-ray IP 668 AA 71
NFC SJ736 X-ray IP 793 AA 75
NFC SJ703 X-ray IP 343 AA 73

NFC SB724 X-ray IP 463 AA 74.5
NFC MB765 X-ray Neo IP 865 AA 77
NFC MB725 C6O2 X-ray IP 668 AA 75.5

HS760 Delta = IP = 398, AA = 75, ERN = 15.1
MB733 X-ray = IP = 438, AA = 78, ERN = 16.15
APFG744 = IP = 447.5, AA = 80, ERN = 16.41
MB764 X-ray = IP =502, AA = 76/77, ERN = 17.85
APFG745 = IP =575, AA = 80, ERN = 19.9
APFG786 = IP = 638, AA = 75, ERN =21.5
SJ706 Delta = IP = 703, AA = 70, ERN = 22
SJ804 Delta = IP =675, AA = 78, ERN = 22.19
SJ607 (IM) = IP = 737.5, AA = 65, ERN = 24.4
SWB806 (Psi) = IP = 800, AA = 65, ERN = 25.8
CB 704() Ip=565, AA=79, ERN=19.5
S961-2() IP=135,AA=65, ERN=6.9
F890-4 LMX?µ (576) 211.4 63 10.2 Gamma Beta
IG868-4 Cyan 171.0 59 8.6 Iconoglass
MB704 Delta = IP = 500, AA = 70, ERN = 17.85
MB704-1 (653) 590.7 69 HM
>>> MB704-1 (HM) ALT- IP= 560.0, AA= 72<<<
>>>>> MB704 HM (ALT) - IP=550, AA= 72<<<<<

MB705 Delta = IP = 518, AA = 71, ERN = 18.35
>>>MB705 Delta (ALT) - IP= 671.2, AA= 66<<<

NFC MB708-1 (353) 918.0 61 Delta LMX
MB709 (IM) = IP = 658, AA = 65, ERN = 22.2
>>>MB709 (IM) ALT - IP= 811.0, AA= 65<<<

NFC MB7109-1 (857) 907.0 60 Xray LMX
NFC MB724-1 (889.86) 583.0 71 Xray LMX
NFC P704-1 (788) 307.2 66 HM LMX
NFC SB724-1 (854.86) 398.0 73 Xray LMX
NFC SJ703-1 (6406) 314.0 70 Xray LMX
NFC SJ732-1 (882) 428.0 74 Xray LMX
>>>SJ732 X-ray (ALT) - IP=422, AA= 78<<<

NFC F 890-4 LMX?µ (576) 202.0 61 Gam
____________________________________________________
RAINSHADOW:

Rainshadow RX10 ETES72M 426 82 15.8
Rainshadow REV72ML-2 piece 200 72 9.8
Rainshadow XST1024-2 piece 368 75 14.2
Rainshadow XST1084-2 piece 372 75 13.8
Rainshadow IP843 #1 332 66 12.7 (319 65 12.8 = Rainshadow data)
Rainshadow IP843-2 2 piece 315 65 12.9
Rainshadow IMMWS72ML 190 65 8.9
Rainshadow SB841-3 3 piece 600 82 20.6 (575 81 20 = Rainshadow data)
Rainshadow ISP843-3 3 piece 238 65 11
Rainshadow XSB843 577 74 20
Batson, Rainshadow BP1024F-M 602.0 62
Batson, Rainshadow IC722 414.0 67
Batson, Rainshadow IMMS68M-TC 700.0 68
Batson, Rainshadow ISB722 464.0 72
Batson, Rainshadow ISB722 542.0 70
Batson, Rainshadow JDGCB70MH 573.0 68
Batson, Rainshadow RDR86M 377.0 70
Batson, Rainshadow REVCB70MH-CB 367.0 60
Batson, Rainshadow REVS68M-SB 555.0 70
Batson, Rainshadow SB781, RX6 422.0 75
Batson, Rainshadow SP944 402.0 65
Batson, Rainshadow SPG843-GB 269.0 62
Batson, Rainshadow SPG843-GB 291.0 63
Batson, Rainshadow SPG845 475.0 60

Rainshadow ETES68MF IP 455 AA 74
Rainshadow IMMC72MF IP 847 AA 71
Rainshadow REVST90L-2 IP 190 AA 60
Rainshadow REVST83ML-2 IP 315 AA 79
__________________________________
PHENIX:

Phenix MX-S 72M (model M1) 475 78 17.2
__________________________________________
LOOMIS:

Loomis SB812 687 77 22.9
Loomis CB843 320 65 13
__________________________________
AMERICAN TACKLE:

AmTakBushido CB68 312 66 12.7
AmTakBushido MB68 642 77 25.8
AmTac Bushido SJ72 8-15 IP 671 AA 75.5
__________________________________________
Mud Hole:

NMB753XF = IP = 612.5, AA = 76, ERN = 20.95
CB928 Blend = IP =733, AA = 73, ERN = 24.3
MHX F704-3 83.7 65 3.9
MHX F905-4 113.8 70 5.7
MHX MB782-MHX 455.0 68
>>> MB782-MHX 521.0 70<<<

MHX MB785-MHX 1124.0 60
>>>MB785-MHX 1204.0 60<<<

MHX SJ720-MHX 320.0 63
>>>SJ720-MHX 321.0 60<<<

MHX SJ781 341.0 70
>>>SJ781 368.0 70<<<
>>>> SJ781-MHX 406.0 70<<<<

MHX SJ782 422.0 72
>>>SJ-782 435.0 70<<<

MHX MB783. IP 676 AA 74
MHX MB842 IP 525 AA 72
MHX MB843 IP 705 AA 74
MHX MB843-2 IP 645 AA 71.5
MHX MB844-2 IP 763 AA 66
MHX MB874 IP 1047 AA 71
MHX SJ843-2 IP 786 AA 75
MHX SJ813 IP 680 AA 75
MHX S841 IP 130 AA 66
MHX S842-2 IP 176 AA 68
MHX P844 IP 536 AA83
MHX HS9600-2 IP 368 AA 74
MHX SA1085 IP 524 AA 66
MHX ESPS81MXF IP 437 AA 76
MHX NSJ843 IP 741 AA 76
MHX NMB843 IP 565 AA 74
MHX NEPS78MF IP 400 AA 74
MHX NEPS78XF IP 602 AA 76.5
__________________________________________________

POINT BLANK:

PB 691MLXF IP 528 AA 77
PB 691MXF IP 610 AA 76
PB 701MLF IP 572 AA 77
PB 701MF IP 685 AA 78
PB 701MHF IP 797 AA 78
PB731MLF IP 599 AA 73
PB731MXF IP 764 AA 80
PB731MHXF IP 826 AA 79
PB731HXF IP 947 AA 77
PB761MHF IP 908 AA 75.5
PB801MXF IP 632 AA 76

________________________________________________

MISCELLANEOUS:

Cascade IP904 396.0 69

CTS FX908-4:3.0 - SSP 215.8 70 10.4

Forecast MB784-M 734.0 67
>>> MB784-M 741.0 63<<<

Forecast SJ782 519.0 72
Forecast SPG784 336.0 59

Lamiglas IMP843 264.0 72
Lamiglas IMP843R 274.0 71

Pac Bay AF938-4-NAT 158.6 70 8
PacBay T2SH993-2 IP 292 AA 80

TFO TF8904B BVK 189.6 70 9.5

GLoomis MB844C IMX IP 1061 AA 65
NRX MH72MHXF IP 792 AA 76

Elliot AP7MLF IP 394 AA 71
Elliot AP7MF IP 464 AA 72

OEM SC84ML IP 346 AA 65
OEM SC84MH IP 434 AA 70
OEM SC86H IP 441 AA72.5

CTS Jet Stream 9’ 6-15kg IP 533 AA 65.5

Carolina Cast Pro 1/2 - 1 1/2 IP340. AA 64
Century Weapon Jr. ISS905. IP 469 AA 68

Multiple blanks (data from 2017) for Pacbay, NFC, Point Blank: [onedrive.live.com]

There are 260 fly rod entries here: [www.rodcents.org]
_____________________________________
Keywords & Key phrases:
NFC CCS , X-ray CCS , X ray CCS , Xray CCS , HM CCS , IM CCS , SM CCS , Rainshadow CCS , RX6 CCS , RX7 CCS , RX8 CCS , RX10 CCS , Immortal CCS , Eternity CCS , Revelation CCS , Point Blank CCS , St. Croix CCS , Lamiglas CCS , MHX CCS ,



Edited 25 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2023 12:18PM by El Bolinger.

I am glad to share what I have.

St. Croix:
3S63MLXF: = IP = 350, AA = 82, ERN = 13.75 (extended 5 inches)
AC69MLXF: IP =358, AA =77, ERN = 13.95 (Avid series, bought off rack and reworked with micro guides)
5S66MF = IP = 402, AA = 70, ERN = 15.1
4S63MXF = IP =405, AA =75, ERN = 15.25
4C68MXF = IP =482, AA =77, ERN = 17.4
SCV610MXF (extended to 7'4") = IP = 578, AA = 80+, ERN = 20
SC3C70MHF = IP = 705, AA =70, ERN = 23.5 (reworked store bought rod)

NFC:
DS721 X-ray = IP =268, AA = 76, ERN = 11.8
DS6100 X-ray = IP = 275, AA = 78,ERN = 12
HS760 Delta = IP = 398, AA = 75, ERN = 15.1
MB733 X-ray = IP = 438, AA = 78, ERN = 16.15
APFG744 = IP = 447.5, AA = 80, ERN = 16.41
MB704 Delta = IP = 500, AA = 70, ERN = 17.85
MB764 X-ray = IP =502, AA = 76/77, ERN = 17.85
MB705 Delta = IP = 518, AA = 71, ERN = 18.35
APFG745 = IP =575, AA = 80, ERN = 19.9
APFG786 = IP = 638, AA = 75, ERN =21.5
SJ706 Delta = IP = 703, AA = 70, ERN = 22
SJ804 Delta = IP =675, AA = 78, ERN = 22.19
MB709 (IM) = IP = 658, AA = 65, ERN = 22.2
SJ607 (IM) = IP = 737.5, AA = 65, ERN = 24.4
SWB806 (Psi) = IP = 800, AA = 65, ERN = 25.8

Mud Hole:
NMB753XF = IP = 612.5, AA = 76, ERN = 20.95
CB928 Blend = IP =733, AA = 73, ERN = 24.3

There are 260 entries here: [www.rodcents.org]

..........

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are 260 entries here:
> [www.rodcents.org]
>
> ..........
what am i missing. all i see are fly blanks. do ya need a log in?
thx

Click on the database tab

[onedrive.live.com]

Not sure who posted this before, but, kudos

Good for you El. I hope you can pull it off and stick with it.

I'll get my data together and get it on. First glances at Les Cline's data shows that he and I have pretty good correlation on a couple common blanks.

Finally, I'll comment on the CCS to relative terms: They look spot on to me. Must have been a genius who proposed that! (Everyone knew this was coming!) But I sincerely welcome comments from others on what they think about the scales. No need to debate how likely it is to happen, let's just comment on what the scales should be that make the most sense.

Thanks yall, I think this is gonna be a good hub for hundreds of questions/searches to find answers.

@MICHAEL we're a team, this is a group effort. I might be new but I'm committed so I'll do my best to build and maintain this thread and the community. Whatever data you have even if Les is the same please share so we can all benefit from seeing the consistent data and I'll highlight any places where people find different results.

I'm hoping more people will state their thoughts on the ranges for IP and AA, if you agree with Michael please say so, if you disagree please feel free too because sharing different ideas is how we all grow - once other suggestions on that come in I'll edit and take Michales name out and no longer use names - just data. I put his there for now so people knew it wasn't my idea, just wanted to give credit.

I’ll pull out what I have from my note books, and get them to you.
Norm

El - thanks for starting this thread. This will help me out a bunch since I'm a newbie. I'm in process of measuring all my factory rods to get an idea where they stand. Will post that info once complete. I will use this list of other blank data to figure out where I have some holes and/or replace some rods that I'm not crazy about with my own builds.

Maybe this thread could be made a "sticky" thread so it stays up at top of the list to make it easier to find?

Anyhow, thanks for getting this going.

Les, just curious? Your IP number for the MB 709 IM blank is a lot lower than what I came up with. I lost the paper I had with all the CCS numbers for most of the rods I've built, but as I remember .... I got an IP in the high 900's for that blank. Just wondering if there was a misprint.....

Looks like a need to spend Saturday morning remeasuring my rods. I'll add stuff here for the blanks I've built on that may not have been mentioned.


Hopefully someone will post CCS numbers for the two rods I've built on trim blanks. It would be interesting to see the difference in numbers, and could prove useful if someone was looking for a blank with a certain power but maybe a different action than what is available from a manufacturer.

I may have some other data, but this is a start. I have not included Point Blank data since it is available on their site. I have correlated quite well with their data. I recognize that this is already a pretty tough task but it would be valuable to also tabulate the subjective descriptors if they are not shown in the model designations. Anyway, here goes:
NFC DS 6100 300 78 12.6
NFC CB 704 565 79 19.5
NFC S961-2 135 65 6.9
Rainshadow RX10 ETES72M 426 82 15.8
Rainshadow REV72ML-2 piece 200 72 9.8
Rainshadow XST1024-2 piece 368 75 14.2
Rainshadow XST1084-2 piece 372 75 13.8
Rainshadow IP843 #1 332 66 12.7 (319 65 12.8 = Rainshadow data)
Rainshadow IP843-2 2 piece 315 65 12.9
Rainshadow IMMWS72ML 190 65 8.9
Rainshadow SB841-3 3 piece 600 82 20.6 (575 81 20 = Rainshadow data)
Rainshadow ISP843-3 3 piece 238 65 11
Rainshadow XSB843 577 74 20
Rodgeeks C47MF #1 450 16 72
Rodgeeks C47MF #2 500 75 17.8
Rodgeeks B466MF 450 72 16
St Croix SCV70MF 452 77 16.6
Phenix MX-S 72M (model M1) 475 78 17.2
Loomis SB812 687 77 22.9
Loomis CB843 320 65 13
AmTakBushido CB68 312 66 12.7
AmTakBushido MB68 642 77 25.8


I find it interesting that the first few posters to this have chosen to post in the format IP-AA-ERN. I have followed suit.

For those new to this, I have concluded that the biggest source of errors most likely will come in with the higher powers due to the criticality of the defection measurement. With a higher power blank, smaller errors in deflection will result in higher differences in pennies/grams. Anyone else care to comment on this conclusion? Really focus on the deflection measurement accuracy.

Here is data I have recorded:

MANUFACTURER MODEL IP(gms) AA ERN
American Tackle AT844-3 933.4 60
Batson, Rainshadow BP1024F-M 602.0 62
Batson, Rainshadow IC722 414.0 67
Batson, Rainshadow IMMS68M-TC 700.0 68
Batson, Rainshadow ISB722 464.0 72
Batson, Rainshadow ISB722 542.0 70
Batson, Rainshadow JDGCB70MH 573.0 68
Batson, Rainshadow RDR86M 377.0 70
Batson, Rainshadow REVCB70MH-CB 367.0 60
Batson, Rainshadow REVS68M-SB 555.0 70
Batson, Rainshadow SB781, RX6 422.0 75
Batson, Rainshadow SP944 402.0 65
Batson, Rainshadow SPG843-GB 269.0 62
Batson, Rainshadow SPG843-GB 291.0 63
Batson, Rainshadow SPG845 475.0 60
Cascade IP904 396.0 69
CTS FX908-4:3.0 - SSP 215.8 70 10.4
Forecast MB784-M 734.0 67
Forecast MB784-M 741.0 63
Forecast SJ782 519.0 72
Forecast SPG784 336.0 59
Lamiglas IMP843 264.0 72
Lamiglas IMP843R 274.0 71
MHX F704-3 83.7 65 3.9
MHX F905-4 113.8 70 5.7
MHX MB782-MHX 455.0 68
MHX MB782-MHX 521.0 70
MHX MB785-MHX 1124.0 60
MHX MB785-MHX 1204.0 60
MHX SJ720-MHX 320.0 63
MHX SJ720-MHX 321.0 60
MHX SJ781 341.0 70
MHX SJ781 368.0 70
MHX SJ781-MHX 406.0 70
MHX SJ782 422.0 72
MHX SJ-782 435.0 70
NFC DS721-1 (871) 268.0 69 Xray LMX
NFC F890-4 LMX?µ (576) 211.4 63 10.2 Gamma Beta
NFC IG868-4 Cyan 171.0 59 8.6 Iconoglass
NFC MB704-1 (653) 590.7 69 HM
NFC MB704-1 (653) 560.0 72 HM
NFC MB705-1 (350) 671.2 66 Delta LMX
NFC MB708-1 (353) 918.0 61 Delta LMX
NFC MB709-1 (351) 811.0 65 IM
NFC MB7109-1 (857) 907.0 60 Xray LMX
NFC MB724-1 (889.86) 583.0 71 Xray LMX
NFC P704-1 (788) 307.2 66 HM LMX
NFC SB724-1 (854.86) 398.0 73 Xray LMX
NFC SJ703-1 (6406) 314.0 70 Xray LMX
NFC SJ732-1 (882) 428.0 74 Xray LMX
NFC F 890-4 LMX?µ (576) 202.0 61 Gamma Bata
Pac Bay AF938-4-NAT 158.6 70 8
Rod Geeks B276MHM 473.0 64
Rod Geeks B476MHM 482.0 65
Rod Geeks C266MLF 424.0 78
Rod Geeks C270MLF 332.0 70
Rod Geeks C2SW70MLM 333.0 74
Rod Geeks C470MLF 304.0 72
Rod Geeks C4F908.4 178.0 75 9
Rod Geeks SG79HM 574.0 67
Rod Geeks SG79HM 609.0 70
Rod Geeks SRF100MMF4 930.0 65
TFO TF8904B BVK 189.6 70 9.5



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2022 01:04PM by Ed Kramer.

Tom,

Is the [www.rodcents.org] database still active? I have tried to log in on numerous occasions and have gotten notes that I am locked out.

Ed

@KEVIN-glad you think this will be helpful, and welcome to the forum! Please share your results for the rods you end up testing, you're part of the team now too.

@DAVID - there's actually a few with conflicting data already. Whatever data you can get please share, even duplicate for the exact reason that we are seeing - important to note discrepancies.

@MICHAEL - thanks for the data, some slight (and not so slight) variations already poppin up.

@ED - what are the numbers in the parentheses supposed to mean? For any of those do you know the blank material (SM,IM ETC)?

I will continue to go back, update, clean up, collate, and try to keep it organized and clear. If there's only a few results for a given manufacturer it will be under miscellaneous.

El, send me an email and I'll check out the "clinkers." Could be a number of reasons. But most likely I can retest-most of the rods are mine. If I cannot resolve the data may be deleted.

idk what im doing wrong but i cant figure out onedrive link. i signed in and it only shows my account. any help would be appreciated
TIA
Matt

El,
great job putting this all together. THX!

Matt Ruggie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> idk what im doing wrong but i cant figure out
> onedrive link. i signed in and it only shows my
> account. any help would be appreciated
> TIA
> Matt
>

Matt - I had trouble accessing that link also. I was trying to view on a Mac using the Safari browser and it wasn't working. I tried it using Google Chrome and it came up fine on my Mac. I didn't have to sign in to anything. Not sure what kind of computer/browser you are using but if Mac/Safari you may want to try another Web Browser. Hope that helps.

Hi all - all this info is screaming Spreadsheet or Database. That way you could sort or filter on any value of interest to you. However, before a spreadsheet would do a whole lot of good would need to come to consensus on what "fields" of information are needed. Since this is being crowd sourced wouldn't think you'd want to make the number of fields too high so it will be "easier" to manage but will provide the best info for folks. Then if someone has the time/interest they could download the info and add whatever else they might be interested in...

I'll throw out some suggestions with the proposed fields having an * beside them being absolutely necessary in my opinion.

*Manufacturer, Series (i.e for NFC: Xray, HM, IM Delta, etc...), *Model Identifier, *IP (Grams), *AA, ERN, Blank been modified (Y/N), Description of Modification

I'm thinking the above would be a good start... Thoughts? Didn't make any distinction whether rod is factory or custom built. Does that distinction need to be made?

If we can agree on the appropriate fields I could take a stab at creating an online viewable spreadsheet (probably Google Sheets). I wouldn't want to be the sole maintainer (I have a job and family... :)) but if there are a few folks on here that would also have interest could share editing/maintenance... Then whenever anyone posts anything on this thread could just add it to the spreadsheet.

Thoughts?

El,

They are referred to as the "SKU" and/or "pattern" numbers from the NFC catalog and website. They are unique to each blank by model and material.

Ed

@Kevin Fiant
THX!! I couldnt get on through ipad or my android phone ..PC did the trick!!