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Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Darwin Wong (---.nssi.telus.com)
Date: June 02, 2022 12:53PM

Hi everyone,
I'm building a bass/pike/musky casting swimbait rod (NFC SWB-807 1/2-5oz) and planning on using 65lb braid. Built number of rods, but first spiral.

I've read the Simple Spiral article in the Rodmaker SE Guide edition, and searched quite a bit on this forum. Some things/info seem to have changed over time so wondering if the following assumptions are correct:

1) Article refers to using double feet guides for butt guide, bumper, and the first 180 guide. Also refers to cascading sizes.
- Is the double feet for strength or height? I was planning just Fuji K guides transition and only ONE double butt guide followed by singles: 10 (dbl foot), KB/KT 6 ,6,6,6....

2) Use smallest bumper guide:
- "small" is subjective. I tried a KB 4.5 and seems to put the line pretty close to the blank with my planned guide train. Maybe going with just another KB 6 as the bumper.

Comments appreciated, thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2022 12:57PM by Darwin Wong.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 02, 2022 01:03PM

The greatest amount of pressure under load will be on the butt section. For this reason I typically use double foot guides on the bottom third of the rod. But use whatever you feel comfortable with.

The Rub Prevention Guide (Bumper Guide) does not transition the line in any way. The only pressure on it will be directly in towards the blank so to preserve the straightest possible line path you want it to be as low as possible right down almost on the blank if possible. A double foot guide, even with a larger ring, can be bent so that the ring sits right down next to the blank. If you simply use a small ringed guide to keep things low, you may find that the ring diameter causes the line to pressure the guide somewhere other than at the very bottom, which you don't want. All that guide should do is keep the line off the blank.

Your butt guide and first 180 guide shouldn't be more than about 9 or 10 inches apart. Don't make the mistake that many do in thinking the Bumper guide is part of the regular guide set-up and create what is actually a 90'degree transition spiral wrap. It's an addition to a guide set that has already been tweaked for good stress distribution.

...........

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Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.ip-54-39-133.net)
Date: June 02, 2022 01:14PM

We've been using the Simple Spiral ever since it came out back whatever, fifteen or twenty years ago. It is the best spiral system I have used. It will not cut any distance from the cast and other than that slight maybe quarter inch offset to get by the blank the line is always along an almost perfectly straight path. I have taken many fish over 100lbs with the SS. What you want to do is after setting the rod up for good stress distribution go back and slip the bumper guide on the line and let it hang loose while you put a heavy load on the rod. Then slide it to the position that puts the line right through the center of the guide ring with the pressure on the center bottom of the guide which will be right against or into the rod blank. When you release the load the line should still be in the center and bottom of the ring and traveling straight from butt to first 180 guide. Some times this will be a position that is halfway between the butt and first 180 guide or on some blanks it might be a 60/40 split. I think this was mentioned in the original article but can't remember. Does not matter just put it where it needs to be based on how I stated it. It will work great.

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Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Darwin Wong (---.nssi.telus.com)
Date: June 02, 2022 02:13PM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The Rub Prevention Guide (Bumper Guide) does not
> transition the line in any way. The only pressure
> on it will be directly in towards the blank so to
> preserve the straightest possible line path you
> want it to be as low as possible right down almost
> on the blank if possible. A double foot guide,
> even with a larger ring, can be bent so that the
> ring sits right down next to the blank. If you
> simply use a small ringed guide to keep things
> low, you may find that the ring diameter causes
> the line to pressure the guide somewhere other
> than at the very bottom, which you don't want. All
> that guide should do is keep the line off the
> blank.

Thanks Tom. So essentially even though i have a very low bumper guide, I may find it rubbing under heavy pressure if the ring is too small? I guess i'll observe this point during my deflection testing

Yup I'm using this bumper guide as described... correct placement and non load bearing

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Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Darwin Wong (---.nssi.telus.com)
Date: June 02, 2022 02:21PM

Mike Ballard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you want to do is
> after setting the rod up for good stress
> distribution go back and slip the bumper guide on
> the line and let it hang loose while you put a
> heavy load on the rod. Then slide it to the
> position that puts the line right through the
> center of the guide ring with the pressure on the
> center bottom of the guide which will be right
> against or into the rod blank.

Sounds like a great step to add. Thanks Mike!

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Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Tyler Reinert (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 03, 2022 12:42AM

I'm also building a similar rod soon. So I appreciate all the knowledge. I couldn't decide wether to go with a traditional spiral wrap or a SS. But seeing as it is my first attempt at spiral wrapping I believe the SS will be the easiest to pull off.

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Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 03, 2022 09:11AM

If you can build a regular guides-on-top casting rod, you can build a Simple Spiral. That was the reason I came up with it. Nothing really new that you have to learn.

............

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Re: Simple Spiral size/bumper updated questions
Posted by: Darwin Wong (---.sdns.net.rogers.com)
Date: June 07, 2022 04:55PM

Tyler let me know how your build goes :)

I did noticed my first 180 guide has line loaded more in the 9 o’clock position or non bearing load. More digging in the forums seem to suggest some tweaks thet can help lessen if it’s a concern. [www.rodbuilding.org]


Long story short, I just made sure my guide spacing was smaller and used a slightly larger guide on my second 180 guide to help get the like down on the first 180 guide. How much difference does it make? Probably just theory but the line load at least looked better for me and test casts worked

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