Hi everyone,
I'm building a bass/pike/musky casting swimbait rod (NFC SWB-807 1/2-5oz) and planning on using 65lb braid. Built number of rods, but first spiral.

I've read the Simple Spiral article in the Rodmaker SE Guide edition, and searched quite a bit on this forum. Some things/info seem to have changed over time so wondering if the following assumptions are correct:

1) Article refers to using double feet guides for butt guide, bumper, and the first 180 guide. Also refers to cascading sizes.
- Is the double feet for strength or height? I was planning just Fuji K guides transition and only ONE double butt guide followed by singles: 10 (dbl foot), KB/KT 6 ,6,6,6....

2) Use smallest bumper guide:
- "small" is subjective. I tried a KB 4.5 and seems to put the line pretty close to the blank with my planned guide train. Maybe going with just another KB 6 as the bumper.

Comments appreciated, thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2022 12:57PM by Darwin Wong.

The greatest amount of pressure under load will be on the butt section. For this reason I typically use double foot guides on the bottom third of the rod. But use whatever you feel comfortable with.

The Rub Prevention Guide (Bumper Guide) does not transition the line in any way. The only pressure on it will be directly in towards the blank so to preserve the straightest possible line path you want it to be as low as possible right down almost on the blank if possible. A double foot guide, even with a larger ring, can be bent so that the ring sits right down next to the blank. If you simply use a small ringed guide to keep things low, you may find that the ring diameter causes the line to pressure the guide somewhere other than at the very bottom, which you don't want. All that guide should do is keep the line off the blank.

Your butt guide and first 180 guide shouldn't be more than about 9 or 10 inches apart. Don't make the mistake that many do in thinking the Bumper guide is part of the regular guide set-up and create what is actually a 90'degree transition spiral wrap. It's an addition to a guide set that has already been tweaked for good stress distribution.

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We've been using the Simple Spiral ever since it came out back whatever, fifteen or twenty years ago. It is the best spiral system I have used. It will not cut any distance from the cast and other than that slight maybe quarter inch offset to get by the blank the line is always along an almost perfectly straight path. I have taken many fish over 100lbs with the SS. What you want to do is after setting the rod up for good stress distribution go back and slip the bumper guide on the line and let it hang loose while you put a heavy load on the rod. Then slide it to the position that puts the line right through the center of the guide ring with the pressure on the center bottom of the guide which will be right against or into the rod blank. When you release the load the line should still be in the center and bottom of the ring and traveling straight from butt to first 180 guide. Some times this will be a position that is halfway between the butt and first 180 guide or on some blanks it might be a 60/40 split. I think this was mentioned in the original article but can't remember. Does not matter just put it where it needs to be based on how I stated it. It will work great.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> The Rub Prevention Guide (Bumper Guide) does not
> transition the line in any way. The only pressure
> on it will be directly in towards the blank so to
> preserve the straightest possible line path you
> want it to be as low as possible right down almost
> on the blank if possible. A double foot guide,
> even with a larger ring, can be bent so that the
> ring sits right down next to the blank. If you
> simply use a small ringed guide to keep things
> low, you may find that the ring diameter causes
> the line to pressure the guide somewhere other
> than at the very bottom, which you don't want. All
> that guide should do is keep the line off the
> blank.

Thanks Tom. So essentially even though i have a very low bumper guide, I may find it rubbing under heavy pressure if the ring is too small? I guess i'll observe this point during my deflection testing

Yup I'm using this bumper guide as described... correct placement and non load bearing

Mike Ballard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you want to do is
> after setting the rod up for good stress
> distribution go back and slip the bumper guide on
> the line and let it hang loose while you put a
> heavy load on the rod. Then slide it to the
> position that puts the line right through the
> center of the guide ring with the pressure on the
> center bottom of the guide which will be right
> against or into the rod blank.

Sounds like a great step to add. Thanks Mike!

I'm also building a similar rod soon. So I appreciate all the knowledge. I couldn't decide wether to go with a traditional spiral wrap or a SS. But seeing as it is my first attempt at spiral wrapping I believe the SS will be the easiest to pull off.

If you can build a regular guides-on-top casting rod, you can build a Simple Spiral. That was the reason I came up with it. Nothing really new that you have to learn.

............

Tyler let me know how your build goes :)

I did noticed my first 180 guide has line loaded more in the 9 o’clock position or non bearing load. More digging in the forums seem to suggest some tweaks thet can help lessen if it’s a concern. [www.rodbuilding.org]


Long story short, I just made sure my guide spacing was smaller and used a slightly larger guide on my second 180 guide to help get the like down on the first 180 guide. How much difference does it make? Probably just theory but the line load at least looked better for me and test casts worked

Bringing this back to life rather than create another spiral thread.

Was just wrapping a light popping blank and figured I would try a spiral. I had it set up RV 6, kb5, kb4.5 then kt4 to tip. 10+tip on 7 foot blank. Will that guide train work rotating everyone to a simple spiral? I could work a kw 5 double foot in or an extra KB?

Thanks

You don't need that many different sized guides. The butt guide and then all the rest the same size.

In some situations I'll use a larger ring on the rub prevention guide (bumper) to allow a bit more room in there so the line never puts any side load on that guide. But often this can be accomplished simply by stringing the rod up and adusting the exact location of that guide so that the line never touches it anywhere other than dead in the bottom (towards the rod). This might require you do something just a bit other than a 90 degree placement, but it wouldn't be by much.

...........

Thanks Tom

What reel are you using and what size? I would recommend mounting your reel seat, mount your reel, pull enough line out to go to the tip and tape it to the bottom side of the tip section. This would be the starting line for your guides. Bend the rod to about a 90 degree angle and make a mark where the middle of the arc is. Your running guides need to be at 180 degrees before that mark. You may need to move the taped tip to bottom side section a little closer to the mark, but with that length you should be good. Depending on the width of your spool (reel size) will dictate the ring size of the stripper guide. I would use a 12mm ring if it is a large spool and a RV 6 if it is small one. The guide configuration (large reel) KW12 at 0, KW6 (bumper), KB5 (bumper), KB5 at 180 and running guides with last 3 guides on tip section being KT5s. For a smaller spool; RV6 at 0 and the rest 5s bumpers and all. I try to keep the line as straight as possible. This is what works for me. Good luck.

Time for a recap in terms of the Simple Spiral... Set up your rod as if you were building an all guides-on-top casting rod. Space the guides for good static distribution. Now spin them all to the bottom of the rod, except for the butt guide. If you run a line through the guides now you will find a point where the line touches the side of the blank between the 1st and 2nd guide and that is where you will locate the rub prevention guide (bumper). If you flex the rod heavily you will likely note that the line moves a bit through that guide, reposition just slightly enough to bring it back to the center bottom of the ring. Only 1 bumper guide on the Simple Spiral.

...........

Thanks.
Small reel, zillion
Thought it was interesting that nfc listed the same layout for spiral and spinning. I used their casting layout just with the running guides 180. Pretty much spot on.

just normal process. Glued on seat, grip and tip with guides held in place with bands. It was pretty close with standard layout, only had to adjust two guides to get a line path I was happy with. I played with off setting the stripper, but in the end I just left-it at 0. Dang arthritis and micro guides was the toughest part.