I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2022 ICRBE
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Banana River Rods
Cork Specialties LLC
CRB
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
HFF Custom Rods
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Lucas Mfg Co.
Mickel's Custom Rods
My Rod Shop
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
ProProducts
REC Components
ReelSeatBlanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rod Builders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Struble Mfg.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods
ZipCast

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
Knots and Guides
Posted by: Keith Langford (---)
Date: October 19, 2020 07:52PM

Fished with my Dropshot and shaky head rods yesterday for the first time since building them. For some reason the knot on the braid to leader does not want to come through the guides cleanly and is getting hung up on the drop shot rod , other rod is fine. Checked the guides, all good. Using the same braid and fluro on both rods, same reel, same knot ( Braid twister knot). IDK. had to end up removing leader and fishing straight braid, worked great then. Even retied the knot a couple times to make sure it was not different from other rod. Help.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 19, 2020 08:40PM

I know the braid twister knot is easy to tie and relatively strong, but it is a fat knot with the tag ends facing both forward and aft. Try the FG knot, it takes a little more time to tie, but it is the thinnest and strongest leader to braid knot out there. The tag ends are at the back of the knot, thus the knot will smoothly pass through the guides when casting. In fact you don’t even know there is a knot when you cast. Try it I think you will like it. There are several different ways to tie it, so find the method that works for you. It is a great knot, the only braid to leader knot I now use, and I have tried them all.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: October 19, 2020 08:41PM

i usually fish straight braid on 10# or less with good results..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 09:19AM

I have not had good luck fishing straight braid, and the line for some techniques is too limp at the lure. Leader works better for both visibility and the fishing technique (a loose weight up from the lure will easily tangle with braid). I've spent tons of time working with the different knots for tying leader to braid, so I suggest:

Yes , learn the FG, but it is hard to tie correctly with lots of failures when getting the technique down. It has to be set VERY hard in order to work properly. Many of its problems are due to not keeping it tight as its being tied and not setting it hard enough.

Easiest is a double uni, but it's a big knot. But it will work down to size 4 runners if the braid and leader are 15 pound test or below.

The best knot I've found is the Alberto. Look it up on the internet and make sure you get the tag end back through the leader loop in the right direction or it will unravel. But it's easy to do right. You MUST set the knot hard, lots of tension with the knot wet with saliva. Then make sure you cut the tag end of the leader very close. 'The only problem with cutting it too short is if you cut the braid while doing it.

Keith, if you want some more detail on the FG, send me an email.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 20, 2020 09:31AM

The easiest solution for knots to braid and leaders is to simply tie the reliable knot of your choice for a leader.

Then, before you tie on a leader or bait, trim the length of the leader so that the leader is shorter than the rod.

Then, when using the rod, line, leader and lure or bait, never let the knot go through any guides.

Fish are not rocket scientists. If the leader is 4 to 5 feet long, the fish will not be bothered by the braid and the leader will be long enough to give the properties of the leader to the presentation being fished.

Keep the knot out of the guides and you do not have a knot issue with guides. Simple but true.

Good luck

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Keith Langford (---.health-partners.org)
Date: October 20, 2020 10:26AM

Thanks guys, I will learn the FG knot, how much leader do you typically use on your spinning outfits. I try to keep the knot out of the reel on the baitcasters, and I did the same for the spinning, knowing its not really an issue with spinning gear. I used 4.5 guides on my spinning for the runners.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Trevor Esparza (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: October 20, 2020 10:33AM

Ill second the Crazy Alberto knot! Easy to tie, super strong and as long as you set it, no failures I can use 15lb braid with 12lb floro through #4 pac bay minima guides with zero issues



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2020 10:34AM by Trevor Esparza.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 10:58AM

I use about 3’ to 4’ that gives me about the right length and allows me to change lures a number of times before I need to tie on a new leader. I find a leader important for a number of different reasons, including lure presentation, such as top water, and abrasion resistance. In addition, it helps to save the braid, since you are not cutting back the braid every time you retire a lure, so the braid length lasts much longer on your reel.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 11:28AM

Same for me , Norm. I use FC and mono leader material, not line. I like the stiffness. Blades are another technique where straight braid tangles too easily and the stiffer leader material excels.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 20, 2020 11:47AM

Yes, I agree the leader stiffness helps prevent the line from tangling with the lure hooks when casting or working the lure.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Ross Montgomery (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 12:04PM

I’ll vouch for the crazy Alberto knot too. I used the uni to uni then tried the fg knot and i now only use the Alberto. It has the smoothness to run through the guides, (I use 4.5 rings) , it has great strength, I’ve never had it break or unravel and it is easy to tie in all situations.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 12:55PM

One thing I learned that surprised me.....is the FG knot isn’t nearly as good for higher pound test braid. It might test out near 90% on some 10# braid but is down around 65% on 80# braid.. There is guy on another forum goes by moniker of Aquaholic. He has done a lot of testing and maintains an Excel file of results. He will also test your line if you mail him a sample. Might change your mind on what braid you buy.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 05:31PM

Russell, I have found the FG to be harder to tie with the lighter leaders, like 10 pound leader. So it's not so hot on higher braids and lower leaders?. Some of the knots are tougher to tie when the leader is limp rather than stiff. I'm getting confuseder and confuseder. But the double uni and Alberto don't seem to care about the pound test of either line or leader.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 06:24PM

I use the Alberto knot and wind the knot onto baitcasters without issue.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 06:30PM

the double uni is easy to tie and small if you don,t go crazy with the number of wraps..i rarely go more than 15# leader if i use a leader, so i guess that helps..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 20, 2020 06:39PM

Michael, just type in the guys moniker and braid. I'm sure you will find the forum post. 68 pages and a little over 1,000 posts. Lots of good info and I did indeed read all the posts. Very first post has the link to the Excel file which you can download. It is constantly updated.

Biggest take away? Most braid sold on the US market is labeled in accordance with what they think your knot will break at. The very same line sold in other places will typically be labeled at double the # test. So yes, typical easy to tie knots aren't much better than 50%. Knot strength is line specific. For example the costly Maxcuatro braid Is one of the best strength to weight ratio lines out there. However the texture is such that you are probably going to cut your 80 mono leader before you can snug your FG knot down!

Also, cost has no bearing. I think Daiwa decided to change that and Yo-Zuri is my current "best buy" line. Across all their lines, Berkley tests quite well. Nanofil and Gliss are a different animal and something you might want to try on a bait caster. Gliss 24# is what would normally be labeled as 8# here. Don't expect either to last more than a couple/few months and knots are difficult. Either you will love it or hate it. Feels more like 8# mono than braid.

I'd say the Alberto is your best easy to tie knot. Recommend going through an extra time at the end. If you aren't testing you just don't know. Probably doesn't matter for many. Me, I'm trying to use smaller and smaller reels on pelagic fish. So knowing that XXX brand of 20# braid actually breaks at 37#'s and is thinner than most other brands15#......and that the right knot preserves 87% of the line's strength is a game changer for me. Lets me use reels half the size I used to.

Oh, forgot to mention that strength declines a lot over time. Brand new line is going to decrease 30+% in a season or two of use.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Dan Grulke (166.94.3.---)
Date: October 21, 2020 10:31AM

Alberto knot for me as well. Easy to tie and very slim.

Thanks,
DG

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: October 21, 2020 01:20PM

Given today's polymer lines I suspect knot slippage rivals breakage as a cause of line failure in lengthy fights with large, strong fish. Some of the polymers used to make fishing lines are also used to make ball bearings and minimize friction. Fortunately, slippage normally occurs over an extended period of time and tension, while fighting freshwater fish under #20 only lasts a couple of minutes if the angler knows his stuff. Still, it doesn't hurt to check the length of the tag-end of your knots occasionally.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Alex Weissman (---)
Date: October 21, 2020 02:59PM

I'm with Michael on the lighter leader harder to tie the FG knot. In salt water inshore I use 15 braid and 20 or 30 lb fluorocarbon leader and the FG knot ties fine. If I break it off I use a triple surgeons knot on the boat. I use a 5' leader on all my braid rods. The smallest guide I use is 5 mm.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Knots and Guides
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 21, 2020 04:49PM

Has anyone bought/tried one of the FG knot tools? Wondering if they would make tying a good FG knot on the water (in the dark?) more of a possibility.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster