I have read every thread in this forum I could find on the subject. I have applied every technique I have read on this subject and there is a ton of opinions out there. What the heck is going on? My guide wraps look great. But that section 3-5" section of rod that I want a decal on will not level!
I am talking pre decal and post decal. The decal is not the problem. Its ME it has to be user error. I cannot figure it out!

I do not like to wrap my decal area ends. Just blank and epoxy! No problem over thread.
Where the heck is my "GLASS TUBING" . Instead it looks like im blowing glass through a tube!

I know I might get a dozen different answers on this subject. I just need one. Does your epoxy level perfect? does it look like glass tubing? How did you do it?

I have beeen using FC lite and high.. tried everything from heat to no heat, no dryer and turn it by hand 180 every 30min. long strokes, lite application and so on.

Take a look in your mixing cup or the foil you poured your finish on. Is that level? I already know the answer.

"Tried everything." And that is your problem. Stop trying anything. Put on the correct amount and leave it alone.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Yes, I see where your going with this. Whats the correct amount for that area? and Yes, I even tried leavint it alone

The article I linked to should help you understand how much of any finish you can apply without it being "too much."

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I am a new builder just like you , what I found out is the coating has to applied fast so get it on as fast as you can stop the motor , get the sages off with a old credit card then start turning the rod with the motor then wait , this works for me , try it on a old broken rod to find out what works for you , some people apply it with a spatchler [ spelling ? ] to get it on fast,
sags are what drops of the bottom of the rod when it stops turning ,

William Sidney
AK

A few thoughts....is the blank level? If not the epoxy ( a fluid) will migrate to the lowest point. Do this section while your epoxy is the most fluid, so that it levels quicker. Do NOT apply too much!

I must be applying to much. What ever it is, I am sure it is ME like I previuosly stated. That was a good read. Thanks Tom. I am sure I have put on as little as possible and I still got waves. I must be applying too much. I tried letting it sag then taking off the excess, however for me that caused more problems. The finish never leveled and filled in where I took the excees out!

I would agree with some of the points in the article. I have tried a few finishes and experimented with how I applied it and different finishes. I still struggle to get that perfect finish but it is getting better. I do use a rod turner but when I apply to a large area I stop it and apply the finish length wise (not around the blank like a guide wrap). I also apply the finish first then move to the guides. This alone seemed to help a lot. as mentioned it is a delicate balance between not enough, to much and just right. I do use heat from a small torch waving the flame briefly under the blank. I have found that Diamond II does not seem to like the heat much, Threadmaster lite does fine with heat and Flex Coat seems to do very well. Keep in mind those were just my unscientific observations.

I was really frustrated with the quality of my finish and asked a builder (several hundred rods of all kinds) if I could watch him sometime. I went over and promptly watched him break about every rule I had ever understood about applying finish, He mixed in a cup and measured by eyeball. He stirred it to a froth for about a minute. looked like the head of a beer. Then he promptly applied the finish quickly and to much. He got out his torch hit the finish. the bubbles disappeared and all the excess finish went to the bottom. As he did this and the finish sagged he put his mixing cup on the bottom and pulled the excess off. His finish was level, bubble free and very nice. so go figure???

Nathan,

I wouldn't let it sag and then try to remove the excess. Once a sag forms, you have a problem to contend with. I think some saw the photos in the article but didn't read the text and thought that was what was being advocated.

There are a lot of builders applying epoxy differently and they all tend to get very good results. The only thing additional I can add is that where epoxy is concerned, less is often more. It is possible to do too much - to try and manipulate the finish and make it do what it would otherwise do by itself. Make sure the rod centerline is level, don't apply too much epoxy and see what happens.

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Tom,

I've seen rod dryers that people use and ones that people sell that don't allow for center lining the rod (keeping the rod axis level). For example the drum style are made to contact the rod handle in most cases and then part of the blank further up the rod. Any explanation on this?

Thanks

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

They don't turn the rod around its own axis. Drum dryers are intended to allow many rods to be turned in the same space and because they turn the rod over whatever portion may be high when the drum is at the top, becomes low when it is on the bottom. So the effect is one where everything is expected to average out. With a single rod dryer where the rod is turned around its own axis, whatever end is high, stays high.

I had a drum dryer that I used for repair jobs many years ago. However, I never used it to entertain custom rod finishes. I'm not sure you could get a really first class job out of it, although I'm sure some do. Most commercial rod operations do use them.

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I have built and sold many drum dryers to clients all over the country.
I have 0 issues in getting a very nice finish on all of the guide and butt wraps.
I stay in contact with my clients who have purchased the dryers. As far as I know, my clients also have 0 issues in getting a nice and professional finish on their custom rods.

Remember, when a drum dryer is used for overnight finish drying on a rod, the finish needs to be perfect and level before it is ever transferred to the dryer. Once a rod is transferred to the drum dryer - the rod will never be touched.



As Mr. Kirkman as said over and over again - mix the finish, apply the finish - let it dry.

More finish jobs are spoiled by builders touching the finish after the initial application.

Be safe

Roger

Nathan Ritchie Wrote:
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I tried letting it sag
> then taking off the excess, however for me that
> caused more problems. The finish never leveled and
> filled in where I took the excees out!


How long is it taking you to apply the epoxy? I'm thinking you're taking too long and the epoxy is starting to kick off. If it wasn't, then it would flow and fill in any spots like you describe above.

Jay,

If you find that it is starting to set can you hit it with some heat to get to flow or is this not recommended. Just asking to see if there is any possible solution to extending the life a little.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

Not Recommended -- But No one has any proof of any type of breakdown in the finish
Nothing happens
use a mid - temp lacquer thinner I am using a epoxy reducer and it works well

or just stay with a Light Finish It stays wet longer and will flow better
Also don't get the shop Real Hot Shortens the set time

Bill - willierods.com

Everyone eventually lands on a method for butt wrap area finish that works for them. You'll get there.

A couple of suggestions might help.

Mix a batch of finish to do the guides first.

Mix a new batch, then move to your butt wrap area. Using a light finish that flows well sometimes helps, and also if it's fresh, then you have the thinnest viscosity. This can help with the issue of applying too much finish.

Make sure any labels have a pre-coat of color preserver or krylon fixative, and that it is fully cured prior to applying the finish.

Do apply in horizontal strokes to cover the area. Rotate the rod by hand to allow the finish to flow all around the blank. Tom's article spells this out pretty well. If you add finish, do it at the top of the blank and let it flow all around. If you wick off any excess, don't scrape off down to the blank. Try to hold your brush or spatula in the drip and drag it across the area without touching the blank. This removes the excess and leaves a fairly level area with little to "fill in". Once you do this, you can rotate by hand every 10 minutes or so and the finish should level on its own.

Another method I've tried with pretty good success is to load up my spatula (a stiff brush would also work) and apply the finish in a spiral method across the area. Meaning, I'll apply as I would on a guide, but move the spatula horizontally. This makes a spiral of finish down the blank and if you have the amount dialed in, this will finish and level perfectly. Once the finish is applied, just put it on the dryer and watch it level. Works like a champ.

Good luck, and practice helps.

Terry

Terry is right on
Do the guides first

Then another mix for the decal area This way the finish is fresh When you try to do Every thing at one time the finish starts to set and will not flow

AND don't fuss with it put it on I used to worry messed up more buy doing that Now just put it on If I need another coat a little 400 dry sand and coat

Bill - willierods.com

You guys are gonna laugh at me! believe it or not- I have tried every method decribed above. The last one was the spiral. nope, not level.

There is some detail I am missing or I am just epoxy retarded.
I have been applying quickly takes me no more than 2 min to apply to section. I have done this first and tried it last after guides. New batch and all.
Mabe it these crappy purple brushes?

The most frustrating thing is I know it's LIQUID! it levels. mine wont, it seems it will not move on my rod unless I manipulate it. I'm not kidding, If I leave it alone it will not move and level out. It's like my pot life is about 3min when I know it's more like 20min. That's the best way I can decribe it. It seems like it stays exactly where I put it on the rod. It's flows a little don't get me wrong. But if I aplly long strokes then I just have long waves. If apply do drip method then I get short waves. If I do spiral method I get spiral waves ect ect ect.

My temp is good from 68 -75 in the room
I get no bubbles in finish
My guide wraps look great , I find these to be easily manipulated if needed
It's like a meth head who can't hold still has apply my finish in the long areas lol
I'm about to go get a 4" puddy knife and try that. I haven't seen anyone try that before
The laws of physics and gravity must not apply on my work bench.
Who is ready to skype and watch me do it? I will set my cam right on my rod. Or walk me through exactly how they do it?

Bill, I always mix a seperate batch for this area. I usually don't even worry about the guides until later. I'm just trying to get a level pre-decal area
I start with this area fresh and fast



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 02:12PM by Nathan Ritchie.

What is the RPM of your dryer I like or have 70 RPM just to get the finish on quickly

Bill - willierods.com

Check the ends of your guide wraps. If the epoxy does not flow nicely onto the blank, your blank may be contaminated.

Don Becker



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 02:36PM by Donald Becker.