Try the hand turning method!!! Apply the epoxy as covered in the article....no brushing. Let it set for a few minutes, if you have sags, wick them off the bottom very lightly, the rotate 180 degress every 10 min. for a half hour then every 20 min for an hour, then put it on your dryer. If this works, then in the future you can adjust the turning timing to fit your needs.

From reading all you messages, I think your problem is caused by applying on a blank rotating 20rpm, especially as you can not apply the epoxy lengthwise, it will always be a spiral!

I agree with you Phil. I think we are getting somewhere. Apply the epoxy as covered in the article? The only question I have is that the article did not specify how it was applied. No brushing? meaning don't use a brush to apply? no brushing while spinning? Can I still apply it by brush at first if using the hand turning method?

Apply the finish lengthwise while not under power. Turn the rod 180 degrees by hand every couple minutes or so . Keep an eye on the finish. If it looks like it is going to start to sag, rotate it. Put it on the dryer after 30 - 45 minutes. And make sure the bubbles released.

Nathan Ritchie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am getting closer- I just did another
> practice run of FC high build 5 min under a heat
> lamp, warm to the touch, mix for 3 min, applied
> length wise, just a small amount of heat from my
> embossing tool. (like a heat gun but with a
> lighter fan and less heat, used by seamstresses)
> wicked of a little sag while turning at 20 rpm. A
> better result for sure, but not perfect by any
> means. little wavy still. enough where i would
> not feel cofartable putting a decal over. I just
> dont get it. I am applying it as even as possible.

Are you heating the finish for 5 minute before applying? If so, I would say that's the problem. I apply high-build all the time in a 65 degree basement. No problem, no heat on the wraps. The heatlamp accelerates the cure time and that's why its not leveling - it's curing.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

You can use a brush as an application tool, but don't brush it on. Epoxy is a casting resin, not a paint.

............

Hi Nathan,
I'll agree with Chuck Mills, don't heat the stuff prior to application. I thought I'd be smart once and heat it up to get rid of any bubbles before putting it on and it set up in a couple of minutes, total waste of effort. You may need to slightly heat it if you have very cold ( near freezing ) temperatures prior to mixing. It never gets to freezing where I am, minimum 2 or 3 degrees Celsius, and I never heat the stuff before mixing and applying it. If you heat it after it's applied it will reduce the viscosity and allow it to flow better for about a minute then it will get very thick. This helps it level for a short period.
If using a brush just load it up and hold it still for a couple of turns. If you get too much in one spot then very lightly, carefully and slowly brush length ways. I use a small gas torch to heat each wrap after I'm finished and it definitely helps to get rid of any small bubbles as well as getting it to level better for a short period. I put it on regularly under and over decals and never get a problem with levelling unless it's a problem caused by me!!
The less you do to it the better the result.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

The heating witha lamp before applying was one time only, testing a different method.
when i pull off sagging epoxy using the hand turn method, i make it worse. I am definately the problem here. Just cant seem to find a technique that works for me. lol styill trying all the ideas! I appreciate all the responses and help.

Here is an interesting observation> I just another test with high build, no pre heat, just mix and go. The high build runs and drips off the rod like crazy and is leveling better. Why is that? the lite build doesn't run and drip like that even if I put too much on. wierd

Do not put the blank on the dryer/turner until the epoxy is on and you have hand rotated several times and gotten rid of the sags.

Measure and make sure the center line of the blank is the same height from the floor at the tip and butt end.

Mix the epoxy for two/three minutes, pour out on foil, blow out your bubbles with a straw........now using a nice wide brush load it with epoxy....for a three inch space a one inch brush isn't out of line but a half inch could do......a 1/4 inch won't do....now.lower the brush to the blank so that only the epoxy, but not the brush, makes contact and rotate by hand 360 degrees. Turn the brush over, move up the blank a brush width, and repeat. Go get another brush load of epoxy and continue on until the area is coated. All of this is done off the dryer and under hand power only.

Now the entire area is covered, Let the blank sit a couple/few minutes until the epoxy starts to sag. If it is only sagging in certain areas drag the finish longways to even it out, rotate 180 degrees and wait for it to sag again. This time try to wick off the extra, again not letting the brush touch the blank. Rotate 180 degrees and wait for it to sag again. By now there should only be a couple/few little dimples. Clean those up, rotate again, and if it looks good get it on the dryer. Nothing wrong with rotating by hand ten times in the first 30-60 minutes and wicking the sags five times if that is what is needed. Next time you won't put so much extra finish on.

Always a good idea to wash a new blank with plain soap and water when it arrives.


20 RPM is a little fast for drying and way to slow for applying. You can't have the finish sag, nor wick away the sags, if the rod is turning.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

this is what I have tried because I had the same type of issue. I used to mix it, put it on foil, then heat it with a butane torch lightly to get rid of bubbles, it significantly shortened the pot life of the fc high build. so I thought to myself, if heating it to get rid of the bubbles after mixing shortens the pot life, what about heating it before you mix it. So I went and got two candle warmers, plug them both in and put a bottle on each warmer (part a on one warmer and part b on the other) for about 30 minutes before I epoxy the rod. This makes it nice and runny before mixing it so you don't have to worry about the pot life yet. Draw out what you need, mix well (with it being runny, bubbles will have a hard time staying in it), and apply. I haven't had any issues with it not leveling since I started this process.

Jack,
Keep a microwave in the workshop.

Put your part a and part b finish in the microwave before drawing out the finish and mixing. Have the microwave on just long enough to generate enough heat to nicely thin the finish. This normally takes about 15 seconds.

Much, much quicker than using a water bottle or other warmer to warm the epoxy. Just keep the microwave on time to less than 15 seconds at a time. It takes almost no time at all to get the finish thinned with the microwave.

Russell, that was very descriptive, thank you. sounds like a great method. I will try that next. I have gone through 8oz of epoxy with all the testing and I am out running out of testing room on broken blanks lol.
Jack, I too seem to have had a little better level when I test heated it first. That may be the wrong thing to do but I had the best results that way. Keep in mind, I had the rod turning while applying and wicking off. That is where my crucial mistake lies I believe. I load my guide wraps while turning and my ferrel wrap with might be 1 1/2 long at times with no problem. I guess when working over a large area, I need to change tactics. Thanks again everyone for putting in the time to read this post and comment.

you could also try the threadmaster one...i tested a bit with it and just used it for a full light duty saltwater rod...havent tried it in the field yet though cause i have to wait a few more days for the epoxy to cure

but the threadmaster one goes on pretty easy and so far its all leveled nicely and such just needs to use like 3 or so coats...it also cleans up with water so excellent for me lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 01:03AM by jon edwards.

Phil Erickson makes a good point about the rod needing to be level before you start to put the epoxy on your rod to get a good level finish to the wrap as if you do this your result will be much better at the end. What I do is first level my rod making sure that my rod dryer is level with the rod with no wobble too it at all. I will then give my tried wrap a good amount of TM Lite Epoxy and once the whole wrap is done I like to flame the whole wrap until the epoxy starts to run and drip off of the rod. What will start to happen is the epoxy will start to run and fill in those uneven gaps in the wrap with the excess amount of epoxy dripping off of the wrap and this will leave you with a nice even finished wrap when done.

Glenn McMurrian

Phil Erickson makes a good point about the rod needing to be level before you start to put the epoxy on your rod to get a good level finish to the rod as if you do this your result will be much better at the end. What I do is first level my rod making sure that my rod dryer is level with the rod with no wobble too it at all. I will then give my tried wrap a good amount of TM Lite Epoxy and once the whole wrap is done I like to flame the whole wrap until the epoxy starts to run and drip off of the rod. What will start to happen is the epoxy will start to run and fill in those uneven gaps in the wrap with the excess amount of epoxy dripping off of the wrap and this will leave you with a nice even finished wrap when done.

Glenn McMurrian

Nathan,

Where in Washington are you?

Chris

I think you guys fuss to much !!
I put mine on a 70 rpm turner Load it on
Now I either let it turn for 1 - 2 hours then change belts to slow speed
Or
after 5 - 10 mins stop the turner Got Belts Change to slow speed If I get sags I 180 several times When it looks level I put the turner on

The stuff levels itself 2 maybe 3 coats light finish

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 06:26AM by bill boettcher.

i am having a terrible time getting a level finish also. reading this i think i found most of my mistakes. too much epoxy, too much fussing and trying to smooth it out. all of my limited practice has been done on the wrapper, i will try rotating by hand to start with next. a couple of questions i have after reading this thread...
1. when i level the rod/blank, i place a level on top of the blank. i read several places to level the axis. how do you do that; hold the level at about the axis and eyeball it?
2. the only brushes i have are the little yellow disposable brushes. do i need bigger brushes for butt wraps and cross wraps?

thanks,
mick

Mike,
I always wonder about what folks are doing - when the subject of having a rod "level" is concerned.

Don't you have a couple of rod rests on which to rest your rods when wrapping and applying finish.

Then, don't the rests sit on a table or bench that is sitting on a floor? Isn't the floor level? Isn't the table level? Aren't the rod rests all the same height?

If all of the previous is true - how would it be possible for the rod to NOT be level?

I am finding this a good thread to follow. I just use FC lite for the first (been using FC high build) time. I warmed the bottles in the microwave (15 secs) as suggested and that worked well for me. Mixed from 2-3 minutes blew the finish with a straw to remove air bubbles. Globed on the epoxy for the guides came back to touch up the edges all done while hand turning. I must say that this is the same way I would use the high build except I would add a little heat to the mixed epoxy to help release the air bubbles. Let the rod set and watched the drips form and fall off and then removed the excess and left the rod set to fill in the bottom after removing the excess. Rotated the rod several times while mixing next batch the butt wrap. Repeat the same process for the butt wrap and all looks smooth to me. I probably hand rotated the rod about one hour before putting in on the dryer. I will need to add at least one more coat to cover the threads over the guide feet and the high threads on the butt wrap. I must admit that my high build epoxy was starting to look pretty good, but I think the lite build is working a tad better.

I want to thank Nathan for posting this thread and for everyone that chimed in with suggestion. It is topics like this that both helps and makes us all better.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!