A rod is a cone. if the bottom of the cone is level the top is not. When talking level, most are talking level as per the center line of the rod.

Chris Richer
Iroquois ON

roger,
i think you were replying to me (it's mick not mike). yes, yes and yes, sorta. rod rests, check; sitting on a bench, check (but not 100% level. the bench is actually a sheet of MDF sitting on two sawhorses so it sags); floor level, check. however, since blanks are tapered, if the top of the blank is level the axis of the blank will be pointed slighty skyward. especially the rod on the wrapper now, it has an 1.25" diameter butt.
again i ask, do i level the top of the blank or eyeball and try to get the axis level? am i missing something here?
what about those yellow brushes?
thanks,
mick

I'm no expert my any means given my short tenor here, but I think leveling with the rod axis is the key. If level with the axis then the fluid will move toward the tip when on top and then move toward the butt when on the bottom. I would think that this back and forth action would create an averaging effect. If the rod was leveled on the top all the fluid would move toward the butt when on the bottom.

Now what do I do, I place the rod on the two stands (both the same height) and start to hand rotate. In this case the rod is always pointing down. I can't really see any difference so I'm happy with my outcome.

This is just my two cents here.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

I have a small level I level the top of the blank and have not had any problems with finish A lot of times the KISS method works

Bill - willierods.com

UPDATE: Thanks again to everyone. I have never had an issue with epoxy flowing to one end or the other. Everything is pretty level here. This whole post was about waves in my epoxy. I was cuaseing the waves and I am sure that is no surprise to most of you. I have had great luck today on my tests. I have applied while hand turning length ways. Just making sure I cover the whole area all around the blank. I then let it sit for about 5 min, wick off the excess that did not drip off, turn and wait about 10 min, then doing the same thing. Seems like after on 20-30 min it looks good enough to sart the dryer. I will be a little mopre patient though. Give it mabe 45-60 min. This combined with a lower RPM dryer I believe is going to get rid of those nasty hills and valleys.

I apprieciate all the input. Somtimes I can be too descriptive and reapeat myself alot. I am a "details" kinda guy. If I don't know somthing, I want to know everything about it or how it works or how I can make it better. Sorry for all the posts and crap, I know there's a lot of you who already knew the answers and I thank you for not being sarcastic. I don't want to put out a "hack" product. I want it to be perfect. When it's not, it frustrates me to no end. So thanks for the help, and if you read this post and laughed to yourself, just remember you started somewhere too.

I suggested folks measure centerline of butt and tip with a tape measure. This assumes floor, etc. is level.

I suspect a lot has to do with the rods and climates. 90 degrees is nothing for me and my salt water composite live bait blanks have large diameter butts and small tips. So lots of taper to these blanks and the last thing I need is extra heat. I suspect if I was building graphite walleye rods in Wisconson a different approach would work better. One of the reasons I wish folks would mention where they live, what they are fishing for, and how.

Once you get the hang of it you can cut a whole lot of corners (Bill). For the guy just starting out and having problems it can help to do it a certain way.

Still trying to imagine how much finish you would have to put on to get sags that dripped when the blank was spinning at 20 RPM's. Very surprised he wasn't getting footballs. I know Tom cringes when any of us mentions a finish sagging at all. I darn sure don't want mine dripping but I feel I get better results putting a little extra on, rotating a few times, then removing what little sags. I suspect if I went with a high build finish I wouldn't feel the need for the sags.

Funny the things that give us problems. Epoxy, in general, always came easy to me (but I was terrified of CP). Ditto on static testing and guide placement. On the other hand I'm a train wreck at intricate butt wraps!!! Last time I actually had anyone to watch and learn from terms like "box in" and "box out" weren't invented.

We are very lucky that people will share now. It wasn't that long ago that most of this was closely guarded secrets as it put money on the table.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth.

I also think the level is very important. I know my bench is level and I usually apply the finish on my rod lathe. When I put the rod in the chuck I measure the distance above the base of the lathe to the center line of the blank in millimeters. I then move towards the tip and adjust each of the four rod holders so that the center line measurement is the same height as that measured at the chuck. Because the blank is conical it means the surface onto which the finish is deposited does have a slight angle to it. However, for the rods I've built the angle is so slight that it does not effect the levelness of the final product.

I apply the finish at 20 RPM (sometimes faster) and once applied I stop the motor and hand turn every few minutes for the first hour or so, carefully wicking off the excess from the bottom sags as needed. I will confess that when the bottom sags are very small I usually spread them along the bottom of the rod instead of wicking them off. I do this by barely touching the sag with the tip of the bush, just enough to create a little surface tension between the sag and the brush. Never plunge the brush into the finish so as to touch the threads. This helps develop an even thickness of finish and fills any waves that may have developed. I then turn the rod 180 degs and let it spread out again. Repeat as necessary. After the first hour I turn the motor on and let it rotate overnight at 8 RPM. In the morning I have a nice consistent level finish. This process has worked very well for me

Steve Hartzell
Lake Conroe - Willis, Texas



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 05:39PM by Steve Hartzell.

You guys are Fuss-in again No need for all that Too much confusion

Bill - willierods.com

Nathan, I don't think anyone is laughing. Great group of guys here that just honestly want the best for you.

Actually I don't think anyone caught onto the fact that you were applying at 20 RPM's and wicking sags while it was turning at 20 RPM's. That is why I jumped in.

What Steve just posted should work well going forward for you. I'd follow it for the guide wraps too.

Hoping all is well now and this problem is solved for you. If there aren't other problems in the future you aren't pushing your craft far enough! Just wait until you can't see, can't remember, and arthritic fingers happen.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Roger, because the rod tapers!!1 One rest is on a larger diameter then the other. and the longer the section or rod, the more the difference.

i dont bother with getting the rod perfectly straight i just eyeball it and if it looks good its good enough lol...that said i dont have a problem getting a flat finish but i use light coats also so maybe that makes a difference?

Phil,


But, having said that, you are 100% correct. A tapered rod will make for a non level surface. If the rod rests are all the same height.

I am just now thinking that perhaps that is part of the reason why I have never had an issue.

My rod chuck is at a give distance from the bench top.
All of my rod rests are adjustable. When I place the rod on the wrapper, I adjust the rod, so that the tip, and all of the ensuing parts of the rod blank just touch the appropriate rod rest when the tip is at the same height as the butt center line of the rod.

I certainly can see, where if a person used a non adjustable rod rest, that the butt section of the rod would be higher than the tip section of the rod.

I apologize for not realizing the issue.

Roger

4 pages on applying finish WOW

What I do works End of story Tight Lines guys

Bill - willierods.com

I would amplify one tip that a couple of others have mentioned/hinted at that really helped me. I got the tip from Andy Dear, the original developer of Threadmaster finish.

This is just for the butt/decal wrap.

After the epoxy is applied, use your brush or spatula and even out the epoxy in full-length horizontal strokes along the length of the wrap, in parallel with the blank , back and forth as you turn the rod by hand a little at a time.
This will smooth out the epoxy along the full length of the wrap.

After that, use Tom's hand-turn method until the epoxy is set.

I think you will like the results.

Walt Natzke
Ripon, CA

Ditto what Walt said. I had the same problems with an uneven appearance until I did the long brush strokes. I also found that for my best results was to make sure that I made connect with my brush all along the rod blank with the finish. This seems to help "wet" the surface and the finish could roll around the blank self level.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

This happened to me over a St. Croix sticker. If I understand correctly, you have a very wavy finish with lots of small holes where the finish didn't quite flow into itself? All your guide wraps are fine? If your guide wraps are fine, your techniques are fine. I tried putting epoxy over a St. Croix decal without applying color preserver first. It acted exactly like that. I sanded with 400 grit paper over a sanding block, scuff it until those holes are no longer low spots, you'll see what I mean. Go gently and slow until you get the hang of sanding it. Try to sand as level as you can, hence the sanding block. I had the decal down already so I had to be very careful not to sand down so far I damaged it. You just need to sand until smooth. Wipe with a tack rag. Wipe the whole thing down with DNA ( I think it's a contamination problem) . Recoat and I bet it comes out better. Lightly sand again if a little wavy still. Repeat process. It took me two coats before I got it like a glass tube.

this is a very helpful thread iv been having this very problem and will be trying this methad (hand turning) tommorow

cheers kyle