Been thinking about using FlexCoat guide adhesive to hold single foot guides prior to wrapping.
A couple of questions though:
1. If the adhesive is that good you can hold the rod up by it as in their advert how on earth can you adjust the gudes position once wrapped?
2. Do you have to use the guide foot adhesive or would any hot melt glue work, say for instance tip top glue.
Any comments are really appreciated.
Philip

Hi Phil,

I've been using this for years. The product is some sort of hot melt glue that is a relatively weak adhesive. Heat up the foot, and run it across the end of the glue stick, then apply to the blank. It's easy to get too much adhesive on so you have to practice. The only downside to this is that you have excess glue oozing out around the foot. This has to be cleaned off prior to wrapping.

Since the adhesive is weak, you can easily move the foot and break the bond to readjust (even if you get too much on) after wrapping.

As far as other products, tip top adhesive is much stronger and I think you would have a tough time moving the foot for adjustments. I suspect the craft hot melt glue made for glue guns is probably a similar product but I haven't tried it. I bought a stick a long time ago and it's barely used. Probably will last me my rod building life unless I loose it.

Terry

Phillip.
Lots of different things work to hold guides in place on a rod. Guide foot adhesive is one of them.

I have tried them all and now just use two things.

1. Different widths of masking tape for most guides - typically 1/4 inch tape for wide guides and 1/8th wide tape for narrow guides.
2. For very small guides and or very small blanks or tip sections - tiny elastic bands. Elastic bands are so simple to use. I will put on two or three extra bands more than needed to hold the small guides in place. Then, if a problem is encountered, an extra band will be on the rod to take care of any of the small guides. (Once a tip or upper guide is in place, one can't put another band on the blank. So an extra binder is nice to have on the rod. When wrapped, it is a simple matter to use a side cutter to snip the bands off of the rod.
The bands allow the guides to be slipped up and down the guides and rotated as needed for alignment.

Guide foot adhesive work well, but I have never had the need to use it.

Good luck

Roger

Hi, Phil,
I do about the same as Roger:
blue masking tape cut into 1/8" or 1/4" widths for larger guides or surgical tubing(many different sizes available) cut into narrow bands for smaller guides. Maybe Anne can help with the tubing!!

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain
John in Wethersfield, CT

I prefer elastic sewing thread, which is available at any sewing supply store. I stretch it and wrap it around the base of the guide foot five or six times, then tie a square knot and trim the ends. This elastic thread holds the guide securely in place but allows me to move the guide up and down and around the blank if I wish. After I have wrapped half or three-quarters of the guide foot with my wrapping thread I just touch the taut elastic thread with a razor and it literally jumps out of the way, allowing me to complete wrapping the guide and whip-finish.
Elastic thread is cheap, easy to use, holds the guide firmly in place yet allows it to be repositioned, leaves no residue, and it does not prevent epoxy or permagloss thread finish from penetrating under and around your guide foot as it should.

I'm buying elastic thread! Good tip!

I get a bag of rubber bands from the Drug Store Cut the thinner ones and with the tip gluded on Tie them maybe two inches from where the guide will be Trim ends then rool in place

If one breaks I just tie on another Similar to Phil

Bill - willierods.com

Looks like your thread kinda got side tracked to other options! To specifically answer your questions,

1. Yes it it strong enough to hold the blank by the guide, but barely, any side to side movement will break the bond. It holds very well during the wrapping process and will still allow any necessary adjustments later if needed.

2. It is a hot melt adhesive, and as Terry mentions above, it is a weaker bond then tip top adhesive. You may be able to find a similar adhesive by experimenting, but why, when a stick of the Flexcoat will last a very very long time!

After using all the other types mentioned in the above responses, I have used the Flexcoat adhesive exclusively for the past 6 years.

There are a number of advantages to using it, 1. Very quick, no having to cut tape or bands. 2. No issue of forgetting to put enough bands on the blank for the number of guides. 3. It can be done over very easily if the guide needs removing for any reason before wrapping. 4. Nothing to remove during the wrapping process.

There is a learning curve, but it is short.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 02:51PM by Phil Erickson.

One other advantage unmentioned so far...and it's on the Flexcoat site. If you have any kind of a centerline on your wrapper (i.e. The "track" on the Flex Coat Power Rod Wrapper) you can stand up, line up the blank with the centerline, swipe the glue on the hot foot and line it up dead center on top of the blank. I can line up micros like this almost perfectly all the way to the tip MUCH faster than any way I have tried. Another tip is, once wrapped, if adjustment is needed a VERY LIGHT flick with a fingernail against the frame of the guide will pop the tiny bit of adhesive loose and you can adjust the guide as if there was no adhesive at all.

OK fine

What if you have to move a guide 1/4" down or up the blank Static test No two or even 10 blanks flex the same even if they are made at the same time Builder Error

With any type of rubber bands the guide can be moved a large amount

Bill - willierods.com

We use the Flex Coat Guide Glue to hold the guide while wrapping,
but the tape or rubberband method when test casting or static position checking.
Once we have them where we want them, notes are made as to position,
and then the guides are taken off and put in a small container until wrapped.
Then, starting at the tip, one at a time positioned with guide glue and then wrapped.
That works best for us, and since we keep the build tickets,
another rod with the same guides and layout can be looked up,
measurments noted, and then the guides wrapped one at a time.
When we try to tape or rubber-band all the guides on first,
we run into trouble bumping them, having them fall off, etc.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

Why not just use the bands
Put the guides on Adjust - Keeping the bands on and then wrap ??

I do this going from tip to butt
As I wrap I measure from the tip as per the measurements from the static test That were written down

Don't really see any need for an extra step of gluing the guides on ???

Bill - willierods.com

i use the tape also and i thought it wouldnt be very easy working with the smaller guides cause i have big fat fingers so i was going to get some of the adhesive but its not that bad really

i just mark where the ring is on the blank and if it falls off i know where it goes still

also the tape isnt bad i can pull on it a little and it will break loose so i can slide the guides where ever then i just take the back end of the tape and squeeze and it resets the tape tight to the blank again and holds still

Elastic sewing thread is basically a thin rubber band covered with a spiral wrap of sewing thread. When 5 or 6 tight turns of elastic thread are made the guide will not move or fall off, but by "inch-worming" opposite sides of the elastic thread wrap the guide may be located (and relocated) with great precision. I have had trouble with bare rubber bands and surgical tubing grabbing and jumping when I attempted to reposition a guide, which made it tricky and time consuming to get the guide exactly where I wanted it.

x2 on Ron's post except I use the micro nylon ties for testing. They offer a good 2 inches in and out for any guide and I have never had a foot scratch a blank (just lucky I guess). Once tested position is marked, it's easy to wrap the larger guides with nylon tie in place, but when I get to the runners I clip the tie off and glue in place. With tape, even a thin 16-inch wide piece covers half the foot on a micro. That leaves a pretty small piece of the foot to wrap onto before removing the tape. I had problems with the tape sticking to the foot and pulling the guide out from under the started wrap. I know many here are very proficient with tape but that is the frustration that lead me to the glue. Once glued I can wrap the entire foot quickly with equal pressure. The wrap looks a little cleaner to me.

I'm willing to experiment, but since most of the rods I build now are used in the salt I need some information. To prevent corrosion my guide feet must be completely and seamlessly covered with thread finish, top and bottom, filling all gaps. I'm concerned that if I use a reportedly "weak" adhesive under my guides before I apply thread finish the weak adhesive will separate from the blank and even the guide foot after the thread finish has dried and my finished rod flexes. This would give salt water direct access to the guide foot and give corrosive salt a place to collect and stay.
If I use temporary guide adhesive and before I apply thread finish should I try to somehow break the weak bonds between the temporary adhesive, the blank, and the guide foot so the thread finish can penetrate and seal these areas? Or should I try to remove the temporary adhesive under the finished wraps with some sort of tool so the thread finish cab penetrate and seal the guide foot from corrosion?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 01:51PM by Phil Ewanicki.

No 1
prep guides that will be used on the rod
Also extra guides that May be used Never know

No 2 I also take a Forceps clean off the threads and sharp edges
Then put on two layers of shrink tubing Electrical stuff on
I hold the guides with these as I grind and file the guide feet

Guides prepped should NOT hurt the blank ????
use rubber bands to hold to the blank When set mark down where

Then wrap or yea Static test I wrapped with tape so they don't move when testing never have any trouble or have to use Glue
Just me I guess ???

You will find your own way to do it

Bill - willierods.com

Good questions Phil, not sure I can give an answer other than to say I have not seen any evidence of the adhesive causing the epoxy to break away and allow intrusion of saltwater. It's a small dab of adhesive and when complete it should be fully encapsulated with epoxy. If the adhesive is "popped" loose to move the guide I would assume that epoxy would run under the adhesive as well as it would the guide foot. I've heard other people say it acts like a little foot-sized underwarp..a cushion so to speak, but it wouldn't be absorbent like a thread underwrap. Don't know what to tell you other than it has not been a problem for me. Would be interested in your results.

im not sure but i would think that after you put finish on the guide it wont be able to move around anymore to be able to pop the glue or so i would think? anyway though i think would be best if you tried a couple different ways that have been mentioned here maybe you find one of the other ways just as easy or better

im guessing to try all of the ways here on a scrap blank would probably cost under $10 for everything so is not bad to try

I am not sure why using an adhesive (weak or strong) causes you concern about water getting on or under the guide foot! If the wrap is sealed at both ends, how is the water to get there? And if, they are not sealed, what difference will the adhesive make?