There is a size at which the wind resistance of what you're casting rather than the tackle strictly limits casting distance. I don't know what this size is, but a standard, 2 ounce, 2.63 inch diameter tennis ball has 11.8 square inches of surface presented to wind resistance no matter which way it turns. A two ounce lead sphere presents than one square inch of surface area to wind resistance.
If your tennis ball casts are quite tightly grouped in distance then wind resistance rather than guide train friction is likely the cause.

There is very little friction in any guide set up as friction is a function of the pressure pushing the two surfaces together. That doesn't occur to any real degree during casting. You can bend up a set of paper clips and get as much distance from a rod as you do with the slickest SIC guides.

It is the weight of the rod, particularly the upper half, and how quickly the rod reacts and recovers, along with the wind resistance of the line, that determine the bulk of your casting distance. Some guide systems get the line under control more quickly and reduce weight on the upper half of the rod.

And few fishermen cast just a sinker for that type fishing. In fact, the tennis ball comes a lot closer to mimicking a sinker plus a chunk of bait than does a piece of lead alone.

As long as the results are relative, that's really all that matters.

......................

I'll be interested in seeing how the guide layout affects the casting distance.

It's off subject a bit but......
There are couple of other factors, that may or may not greatly affect casting distance, that won't be covered by this experiment, that I would also like to understand. (More experiments needed!)

1) As was previously mentioned the VS (despite being seriously expensive!) is not considered a great casting reel. I think that this is because the reel wraps the line around the spool once for each oscillation. I think the better casting spools wrap the line twice for each spool oscillation. Is there really a difference in the casting performance between the VS and other reels? If so, is the difference because of the number of wraps (2 vs 1) or is really a function of the angle that the line is layed? (These are of course related by the height of the spool)

2) It seems to be standard practice when filling a spinning reel to (A) lay the line spool on the floor (or table) and let the line twist off in the hope that the line is then NOT twisted when it is on the reel spool. The alternative way (B), which to me seems less common but more desirable, is to put a pencil (or screwdriver) through the hole in the line spool and let it spin as you load the reel. This puts a twist in the line as it loads on the reel. When the line is then cast it untwists. It would seem to me that the line would more easily leave the spool as it is trying to untwist (B) as opposed to being twisted as it is in (A). I expect you might get better casting distance using method (B). I think it's also more desirable from a fishing perspective because when you are fishing the line between the reel and the lure would be less likely to be twisted.

Do others have any thoughts on this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 07:25PM by David McDonough.

David,

I use braid-problem solved. From what I remember in my mono days, you need to lay the spool flat and see which way the coils come off so the twists go on the spool of the reel the same way. You'll know if it is on backwards when you go to cast; if you open the bail and 3 to 4 coils fall off-it's backwards. There has been times in my life where mono has driven me to a point of near insanity.

Chuck

I think the VS doesn't cast well because of teh size/shape of teh spool and how the line comes off in a wide "coil". I dont' surf fish, I don't know first hand.

Start time is 10AM. We will try to be set up with the field marked by that time and ready to start. I really don’t know how many people are going to show up, I have 20 on my list, but I assume a few will just drop in. If you know someone interested or want to bring someone you are welcome to do that. For directions and a map of where we will be, check this page: [northeastrodbuilders.com] We will have a table set up and a couple of chairs, if you plan on sitting please bring a beach chair. There are porta potty’s on site.

I need people to take photos of the event and e-mail them to me. Also video. If you take the video with a phone, please make sure you can e-mail it or post it or don’t even bother. I have taken care of all the logistics of measuring and recording the distances, I will need some help walking the casting weight back and forth every cast so the line doesn’t twist. I’m expecting average cast length to be 300 feet, so for every cast it’s going to be a 600’+ walk, on wet grass.

John will have a few other Fiber Star models of blank, and possibly a couple of them wrapped. If you want to bend or cast them please do. If you have a rod that you want to cast and see how good/far it casts, you can do that on the side – please don’t interrupt the guys casting it’s going to take a few hours to get this done as it is. This is going to be a lot of fun, see you all in the morning!!

Billy, your idea about why the VS does not cast well i agree with 100%.
To get around the massive coils users of the VS and the equally bad casting green 706 use guides you could jump a weiner dog through.
4 maybe 5 guides. Then suddenly choke it with a 10 ring tiptop.
Edit for clarity: the size of the spool itself is not the main culprit its what they do with it guide train wise. An Alvey reel has an even bigger spool but with the right guide train can outcast almost anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2012 01:57PM by Lou Auret.

The reel is not designed to cast 2+ football fields, it wasn't designed to be smooth, it's not trying to be the lightest reel on teh market. I know a lot of guys reading this must be wondering why would anyone waste money on a big clunky reel that is as heavy as a tank and casts like a string coming of a soda can? The VS is designed to take a beating, dunked under a wave where a ton of sand enters the reel, guys take this reel skishing (don't know what skishing is, google it) - it gets banged around rocks > and it continues working the same as if you were fishing it on a boat in optimal conditions.

Lou, we're gonna see how the VS handles these smaller guide set ups, and compare it to rods set up with the hula hoops (well not quite, we only used a size 50 stripper). Funny you mention the Greenies, I just took 2 almost brand new 712's out and a pair of well conditioned 704's ut to hopefully sell tomorrow (they aren't mine)

Chuck,

What I'm saying is

- With the line spool the "right" way,the line goes onto the reel spoil, such that is not twisted while on the reel spool but becomes twisted when it leaves the reel spool when casting. This twisting takes energy from the cast that would otherwise be translated into casting distance.

- With the line spool sitting "backwards" the line goes on (depending on the relative size of the line spool and the reel spool) with about 2 twists per revolution of the reel spool. It is so twisted that it flies off the spool by itself.

- When the lines in layed on the spool (using a pencil or screwdriver) in the same manner as conventional reels, the line while on the spool has one twist per revolution. This is not so twisted that it flies off the spool by itself as it does when it is "backwards", but these twists do help the line leave the spool more easily. The cast is acutally unleashing the potential energy a coil.

I don't know whether this in practice translates into significant measurable differences in casting distances.

My hunch is that with "surf gear" and stiffer lines like mono over 15 lbs, this could transate into a few feet of casting distance.

We had a great event yesterday, about 25 people stopped by, maybe more. Teh casting was a BLAST, I wore a glove and and was showing off my baseball skills tracking each cast and catching each on eso the line didn't tangle when the ball landed. I will have a synopsis of the results posted this week.

The evening Tilefish seminar had 23 peopl ein attendance, that was an AWESOME seminar!! THanks to all that attended each of these events (only 3 stayed for both), so it was a really good turnout!!

As i am new to distance casting what was the distance they were getting with ther rigs, the weight used, the length of the rod, an what reels used

Bill

re-read teh post

I did, I missed something what kind of distance did they get ??????

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope peopel take the opportunity to attend this
> event and see what happens. I will not be posting
> specific data form this event because it is not
> fair to those who make the effort to show up. I
> know that is not feasible for people to travel
> long distances, but there are a lot of people
> local who rather let us do all the work and glean
> the info.

I don't even surf fish and I'm looking forward to the data even if it's a synopsis. Thanks for doing this. If I were closer, I would have been there. 3000 miles is a bit of a barrier.

Also-never heard of a tilefish but Wiki has an excellent article.

Drew

Billy,

Sounds like a great day! I'm looking forward to reading the results.

Joe