I am just asking if anyone has tried there new micro guides or have had a head start in the use of there new line of micro guides. I am looking for constructive input on there use and there ease of application to a build. I did notice the foot on these guides are much different than the other brands out there. It looks enticing and I think they have something there for the builder in mind for construction application any thoughts or comments would be great! Also the ring seems to be more sturdy in design any comments there. I have read there site about them already, but I am sure there are some builders out there who have had a chance to try them on a few blanks !

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

Website
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I have read about them also, I want to try them on my new build, I'm ready to order the components, But I need to know where I could get them from. Any help on that will be appreciated. Thanks.

In what way do the "rings look more sturdy in design"?
and what about their foot makes them "much different than the other brands out there"?

Not seen them yet, only a picture. From what I can see in the picture about the only difference is a wider neck.

The way they looked tome was that they had a thicker neck from the foot to the ring, plus the foot looks more stronger, I am willing to give them a try if i can find some dealer who sells them, Juat my thought on the looks. Have a good one.

Steve I attached a link see if this helps [www.fishpacbay.com] its in pdf ....Judge for your self. Perhaps this picture you have not seen yet Let me know yes or no if the link works. Also Look at the Frame and Ring design they are different. If you used the others then you will see the difference right off the get go! Remember some folks look and see differently than others we all see in many ways. But I am sure you can see the difference in these over some or most of the others. Not that there is any thing wrong with the others... I use them as well. I just want to know who else has tried them out and get some input on them. I hate using names so as to be unbiased about my inquiries. I am not trying to compare but to just get some intell on these new guides and how well they work.

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

Website
[www.facebook.com]
[home.comcast.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2011 01:53AM by Rick Heil.

Rick;
That was the picture I saw.
(Even though the new Batson is my clear favorite) was not promoting one guide over another either with of the questions. Was wanting to know what made them so different.

I see the wider neck and understand it improves neck strength.
But don't understand how it provides " unsurpassed finish anchoring" ?

Both American Tackle and Batson have gone to the recessed insert ring support for added ring strength and holding.

They (and I think now also Fuji) have designed a moderate curve into the bottom of the foot for better contact of the foot to blank placement.

Both American Tackle and Batson have; "Specially designed foot creates superior finish anchoring"

I was not saying there is anything wrong with these guides, I am glad all the manufacturers have made improvements to their designs in the last year.
Was just trying to understand what you saw in person that I did not in the picture that made them so different.

I guess the Forhan Locking Wrap doesn't work any more ?

How much do they weigh.

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,

wrap a few up and you will see what method you prefer.


Tom

First I would want to shape the feet thinner Which would defeat the purpose of just a quick sand and wrapping

Then again has any one weighted them and compared them to other micro's

Bill - willierods.com

Steve - what are the pullout results on the Batson - since you quoted - "Specially designed foot creates superior finish anchoring"

(Keep in mind that brand of finish, thread, and wrap style all impact pullout strength as well as foot design)

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2011 10:07AM by Alex Dziengielewski.

I have used the size 6 FX guides a lot - and they are excellent! No experience with the micro sizes yet, but the regular FX's are as good or better than anything on the market.

I'll try my best to chime in as a rod builder and not as a manufacturer/marketer here.
The improved finish anchoring is achieved in two ways.

1. The wider neck at 2.3mm creates a wider contact area for "finish blocking" in front of the guide.
2. The wide foot at 1.9mm - 2.15mm creates a void under the edges of guide feet placed towards the tip. This void fills with finish creating a greater "finish anchoring effect".

So, the guide foot performs in different ways depending on whether the guide is wrapped towards the tip (void filling) or butt (finish blocking) of the blank.
As for ease of wrapping; I would say its a little harder to wrap than the standard foot of a guide 1 or 2 sizes larger because while foot is wider like a larger guide, it is also short like a typical micro to keep the weight down. When I started wrapping these I used some 4 letter words on the first 2 or 3 attempts. After that they go on like butter every time and I would consider myself an amateur builder at best. Prep is also a snap. Using size A thread the tip of the foot requires only a few passes on the file. Complete specs including weights for the FX guides and tops can be found by clicking the "Learn More" link in the FX guides and tops image on the front page of our website.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

Steve - "new Batsons"?

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Chuck,

I believe they were supposed to be released sometime in June-July timeframe. I got a set at the expo and LOVE them!!!


Tom Kaufmann

Alex;
“(Keep in mind that brand of finish, thread, and wrap style all impact pullout strength as well as foot design)”
Totally agree!
Would be interesting to know which of these Pac Bay used?

But to answer your question;
I HAVE NO CLUE!
Have never had, or had a rod come back that has had a guide pulled out, either with the Batson older design or the new design.
So I have not concerned myself with destroying guides to find out the exact pullout pressure required to do so.
Keep in mind that myself and as far as I know none of my clients use anything over 80LB braid. If they start and rods begin to come back in with guides pulled out I may have to reverse my stand and start running test.

I do know from working with the newer Batsons, with the way the foot is designed, it has no choice but to require a higher pull rate to pull one out.

Also the ft being slightly wider then the neck, creating an hour glass bottle neck structure in the finish would require a higher pull out rating. (hope that made sense)
In other words it will almost always be easier to pull a straight edged item out from under a finish then a contoured item, guides of other wise.

Pac Bay, American Tackle and Batson have all improved the foot anchoring by their new designs.
I think Batson, by staggering their widened out sections and having 2 nearer the neck have done a better job of insuring they don’t get filed down or off then those that have put them at the tip of the foot.

Chuck;
Here is the post made a few months back concerning the new Batson design
[rodbuilding.org]

Geoff Staples- You might consider a 3D over view of those particular guides on that pdf file you have posted on your site. Front view and even a side angle view of frame and ring. To me there is more ring on this design in depth that's what I see from the picture your presenting and gives me the persona of there being more frame to hold that ring in place. Please correct me if I am wrong here. But I am very detailed in nature that's my way I guess. I just see that in the pics and because I have the other manufactures guides on hand here to look at up close. I only have pictures of this product to view from. I know I am being a fuss bugger here but I think you already know the drill when it comes to this forum LOL.

It sounds to me that with your trial and error with building theses on a blank just come with the what I call the (A thread Climb) to the foot, which is a simple guide prep fix issue all together. If thats the case then these should prove to be a good guide to give a go with.

Thank you all for your response and still awaiting more as we go along here!

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

Website
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[home.comcast.net]

Steve... Pics? (said it on the post you referenced also)

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Alex ;
Don't own a camera someone else will have to post a pics.

Somebody must have a picture. I couldn't even find info on Batson's site. I don't think they exist. ;)

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Donart has a pic of the little FX guide in the Pac Bay guide section of their site. The Donart link is in the left side sponsor section.

Ladd