I’m building a spinning rod for casting ½ oz Pompano jigs in the surf. The blank is an su1262f Cascade blank rated for 1/2 to 2oz extended to 11”. I’m using a Penn Sargus 5000 with Stren Sonic 30 lb. braid. The guides and spacing are as follows:
BKLG 30 31” from reel face, BKLG 20 49” inches from reel face, chocker TKTAG 8J at 62” based on 2.28inches X27 and three TKTAG 8Js spaced evenly to a 8 ring tip.
On my test cast, it created wind knots about every third cast using ½ oz. weight tied directly to the braid. These wind knots occurred after about 30 to 40 yards of line had left the reel. Even with the wind knots, I was getting 70 to 80 yards just lobbing the weight.
Anyone have any suggestions as to what is causing the wind knots or how I might reduce them.
Thanks
John

Most wind knots are not due to the rod but the line lay on the reel, the type of braid, or type of reel. If anything is causing wind knots on the rod it's the placement of your butt guide/ gather guide. You might want to move the butt guide closer and farther away from the reel face. I would think it might want to go closer first.
If none of this fixes it I would look at how the line is spooled... Do you have a swivel on the line anywhere?? If not.. that's what your problem is.. Line twist! When braid twists forget it it's done. It will drive you nuts and it's not worth trying to fix just replace.

Wind knots and braid sort of go together, especially when the line isn't spooled on tight. If you are test casting in a field or a lawn there is really no resistance on the weight and line, like there would normally be in the water, the weight is probably bouncing along the ground as you are reeling it in creating slack on your reel spool. Then when you cast the pile of slack line slips off the spool creating a wind knot. I just had the same thing happen to me fishing on vacation. I was trying to work a popper with a side wind while casting off the bow of the boat and created such a wind knot it ripped one of the guides off the rod, my fault and I will fix it soon, LOL. My suggestion is to slide your hand up the rod and run the line through your fingers as you reel in. This will pack the line on the spool tight and should eliminate your wind knot issue. Good luck and let me know if this solves your problem.

Tony

One of the advantages of a properly spinning rod set up with micro guides is a significant reduction in wind knots.

I am effectively using smaller guides (16 as butt guide) with 3.5 micro runners. The trick for wind knot reduction is reducing the guide size -and gaining control of the line flow quickly. Fuji's new T-KLSG and T-KLAG tangle free guides will help you - designed specifically to shed the knots.

Caution: A micro guide rod must be set up for a specific reel, line and lure wt. If you change any one of the three the performance is drastically reduced.

The put it on tight is the real key with all braided lines. When loading the reel overfill the spool - then walk all the line off the reel on a heavy duty rod and reel it back in with the blank loaded or extremely tight pull on the rod.

There is a huge amount of reading on this forum concerning the wind knot issue.

Here is a sample of the line control - [www.rodbuilding.org]

If you have a few days to spend reading use the Search Function enter the phrase "M&M Volume" change the date option to "All" and press enter - See you back in a few days if you read 24 hours a day!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2010 11:28AM by Bill Stevens.

Close the bail by hand when you use GSP braid on a spinning reel, and keep tension on the line with your free hand when you do so. It will become automatic, and it should reduce your problems.

Is it any wonder why wind knots originate when the guides are looped when a limp line sees slack coming off the spool while outbound at high speed?

Many have not seen this photo - [www.rodbuilding.org]

Wind knots, no such thing really!! ...are nothing more than LOOSE LOOPS REELED onto the the spool/loose line on the spool. Next cast the line grabs at the loose loop and pulls it off prematurely = a line mess. It's that simple. The line doesn't do it, neither does the wind. Limp line (braids) cannot come off the spool faster than the lure pulls it off either. Keep tight line on the spool and you'll never see the miscalled "wind knot" again.

DR

Thanks for all the suggestions. This gives me some idea where to look for the problem. Seven responses in a few hours? There is nowhere you can get help like this outside of this forum.
Thanks again.
John

John,

Check out the Wavespin series of reels. They were designed to eliminate exactly what you are struggling with, and they do work. They won Field and Stream's "Best of the Best" award last year. We probably won't see much of that spool until the patent runs out, as the company doesn't have the advertising power or clout of the big reel manufacturers. I've put them to the test myself in freshwater and have read several reviews from surf fisherman casting into the wind who say the reel does exactly what is claimed. If your good at tweaking and have another reel you'd rather use, the spools are available by themselves and are pretty standard internally. It shouldn't take a whole lot to drop one on your current reel. Of course, it won't rectify a guide problem, but if wind or line lay are the problem then this is a viable solution.

Jason Cosby
Cos Rods

Tony P has a point about retreiving the line on a dry surface and no resistance. This is where I would look at the problem..

No such thing as a wind knot.. Not wind.. like blow.. but wind like wind a clock.. This is exactly what they are! This term is like spine and spline no one seems to know which is right.. it is wind like a clock!!

Do not tell anyone that fishes for money there are no such things as wind knots! Messing with picks, reties or additional rigged rods is a waste of time that cuts down on productive lure in water fishing time - Bobby F. - tell all this Forum readers exactly what an Elite told you face to face! This is one of the primary advantages of bait casting rods using micro guides.

A past Bass Master Clasic winner (who is my neighbor), says; "after using your 'micro rod, the greatest advantage is in the fact that I gain 30 minutes per tournament day because I don't have to stop and pick out wind knots or have to cut my line and re-tie because of tangles when using braid".

In spite of what the Classic winner has told them, the sponsorer refuses to get out of the box and it apperas that they will be the last (or next to the last) to get on board.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

Your right, John, but the wind (as in blow) does create the wind (as in clock) knots when folks aren't monitoring their spools and all that slop is blowing around. Not the only way to get knots but sure aggravates the problem. It's funny--I've lived in three non-English speaking countries and universally the natives cuss heteronyms more than anything else about our language. This is a good example of why.

Jason Cosby
Cos Rods

Jason, I'm not sure I follow. Surely you can wind in the wind while looking over there, or their, or they're. But trying to console your console, while listening to Buffet while standing in the buffet line, and don't desert the desert. God this is fun I could go on forever, LOL.

I rarely have a problem with "wind knots" in GSP braid while using a spinning rod, although my surf rods definitely do not have micro guides. The vast majority of GSP braid tangles I encounter with casting reels are commonly called "backlashes," which are particularly bothersome when casting into the wind (beeze). I'll bet I'm not alone in this. Nothing can be done with guides to solve the backlash problem

Phil E.

Your quote -

"Nothing can be done with guides to solve the backlash problem"

If you would consider changing the word "solve" to the phrase of "reduce the frequency off" you may find that your choice of the word "Nothing" may prove to be incorrect for many baitcasting reels.

Consider the purpose of the internal centrifugal braking system as it relates to line flow variations during the cast. Build an all on top,all same size micro, give it a heave ho and watch the line from the pawl guide on the reel to the butt guide - you may soon realize that you can move the internal settings to a minimum brake setting and remove your thumb.

Bill, I'm guessing all the guides should be the same as the aperture of that found on the pawl guide of the reel?

Bill:

You say Micro Guides will "reduce the frequency of" backlashes for "many baitcasting reels." Which reels qualify, and which don't?
I will take one of my reels that qualify, or borrow one if necessary, and borrow a microguide rod and try your suggestion of relying entirely upon my reel's centifugal brake system (minimum setting, with no thumb involved, per your instructions) and attempt a long cast into the wind. If a backlash results should I send my reel to you to pick it out, or will you provide me with a new line? I figure the chances of a backlash under these conditions to be 100%, unless the guide openings are small enough to prevent the line from moving at all.

The speed of the reelspool unwinding line coupled with the rapid deceleration of the line inside and OUTSIDE the guides result in a backlash. You can't push on a rope, and even absolutely frictionless guides would be unable to prevent or even significantly reduce backlashes in the great majority of circumstances.

It is evident from your post that you have not taken the opportunity to visit with some of those who reside outside the box of conventional wisdom.

Simply put the guides do have an impact on backlash control.

Select your reel of choice loaded with braid -

Put that reel on a conventional rod of choice and ask someone that handles a baitcaster pretty will to make a few trows for you. Stand to the side and watch the line flow from the pawl guide on the reel to the butt guide on the rod. Remember what you see.

Take that same reel and place it on an all on top rod with all the same size guides equal to or less than size 4.0 mm.

Start off with exactly the same settings that you use normally with conventional rods and make a few long range throws.

Now start backing off a little at a time on the side plate friction knurled nub and the internal centrifugal breaking system.

After you are comfortable that you can successfully throw without any problems with backlash repeat the above test with someone else doing the throwing - again watch the line between the reel pawl and the first guide.

You will note the huge reduction in lateral line motion due the the line flow contol feature created by the smaller guide

See how far you can back off without excessive backlashing -

I used to have quite a few issues with "wind knots' when I first started using braided line. Since upgrading most of my spinning reels, I rarely have problems any more. The difference appears to be that the top lip of the spools on my new reels are tapered and the line seems to come off the spool quicker without piling up. I'm not really sure why it works, but it does. When I use some of my older reels, I still have problems. I have an old Sustain without this feature and I have problems with it. I have several new Shimano "Sustains" that work well and I've had really good luck with the new Penn "Conquers" These are both outstanding reels and I often go whole trips without a wind knot.