Hello Everybody! I am new to the site, new to rod building, and new to.......................all of this. :-) I think I have figured out what kind of rod I want to build for my first. I am wanting to build it with a balancer kit and found a look I like.

Does anybody know where I can find the balancing kit that Kistler will be using on their new ZBone rods? In the attached article from tackle tour it says its custom. I don't know if that means custom to them, or if its available elsewhere.

Here is a link to the article with some close up pics.

[www.tackletour.com]

Thanks in advance for any leads.

Tony

Looks like that baby is made just for them.

If you want a sharp looking balancer, check out the Batson system. I think Swampland has them on their site.

Good Luck,
Marc

I use the Batson weighting system for one purpose only.

Reduction of angler fatugue on heavy duty rods such as flip stick or jig rods that are longer than seven feet that are used for tip up bite detection. Some of these rods will wear you out if used all day! The additional balance weight required in most cases is two to four ounces - I rigged one for a tip knotch FLW pro this week with a six ouncer - a balancer counterbalances the rods heavy tip weight - aids in pitching a lure 2,000 times in a full day.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

In most cases the use of this type of stuff defies sensible logic for most. If a bass fisherman shoves the reel seat out to help with balance he looses all of the fish control features of the shorter rear grip. If you think about it you are never raising the weight - it only falls to aid in removing the tip weight of the rod - you are not spending any calories or work simply because the weight is present - the same principle is used to get oil out of the ground with a small electric motor powering the walking beam.

We will have several of these in the Swampland Booth at High Point - please take the opportinity to check this out.

[www.swamplandtackle.com]

Tony;
Unless you want to balance the rod for purposes stated by Mr. Stevens, I would stay away from them. If whoever your intention is to achieve what he is stating? Then he has given you very sound and in my opinion the best advice.
Not sure you could get the style the kistler has, but the Batsons are very sharp looking and will provide the ability just adjust the weight up or down depending on what you are looking to accomplish.

My first rod build will be for my favorite technique.........flippin/pitchin.

I believe I have two routes in balancing the rod:

1) Balance it naturally with the intended reel (no need for balancing kit).

2) Balance it with a balancing kit.

The reason I am thinking about option #2 is because I am harder on reels than I am on rods, therefore I thought I could design it with my "next generation reel in mind (in the event I don't use the same reel again). I feel it opens up the "design window" for me when the first reel bites the dust. :-)

Tony

ps - thanks for all the guide, comments, tips. I am really stoked to get into this.

another advantage - if for spot use during the day fish as is with no added weiths if you choose - the kits come in three weights 2, 4 and 6 oz. Keep them in your box with jigs or in your pocket - add the one that matches up for the wt you are messing with. Seconds on and off - only one set of the hubs is needed for many rods.

The reel is in hand and does not come into play very much - you will not need a different wt for a Revo Premier, Core or a Calais.

As a flipper palming your reel, it becomes a pivot point. Lighter reels can make the whole outfit lighter, but will do little to balance it or make the tip lighter.
If you hold the rod and line in front of the reel yes the weight of the reel can greatly influence balance.
I would consider option #2 the second best choice to balance you proposed setup.

With option #1 being to do everything you can to lighten up the tip section (smaller guides, shorter wraps, thinner finish) then work on the weighted butt end.

Bill,
You are right that you are not doing any work just because the weight is there because work is by definition mass times distance. However, the minute you move the weight up or down or sideways work is being done. You are also in error in saying that no calories are being burned. The presence of the weight results in calories being burned even if the weight is not moving. You must burn calories to resist the affect of gravity on the weight. Sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2010 12:33PM by Emory Harry.

Tony,
If you have a particular need to balance a rod - what ever the reason - go for it.

However, if you do balance a rod - don't make the mistake of putting lead up the inside of the blank.
Some folks put lead up the inside of the blank with the idea of achieving a balanced blank. The problem with using this technique, is that about 2/3rds of the lead does nothing except make the rod heavier. i.e. the lever arm gets so short for lead that has been inserted several inches up the blank that there is no balancing lever in the system to help balance.

As you pointed out, several of the various balancing systems on the market that put the mass balance at the extreme butt of the rod give you maximum lever balance with the minimum added weight.

Also Bill has a good point about some fishing techniques work better with shorter back grips, than long back grips. With a long rod and a short back grip, it is very difficult to achieve a balanced rod with out adding weight to the butt of the rod.

Emory is right in that weight equals expending calories during fishing. If you have a rod that weighs 4 ozs compared to one that weighs 2 ozs, one will expend a bit more energy in lifting the rod.
However, I do agree with Bills statement in that a heavier - well balanced rod can actually result in much less fisherman fatigue over a long day.

For all of my very sensitive jig sticks on which I have fairly short handles, I always balance them. The balance of the rod is much more important to me than the absolute weight of the rod. The reason is very simple in that a well balanced rod simply lies on my hand with out any added palm clenching to hold the rod in its desired position. Often, the bite is very very light, and the fact that the hand has not become fatigued over a long day of clenching an unbalanced rod, allows me to feel the bite and land the fish.

Does the heavier rod equate to a larger expenditure of calories? Probably. Does the Balanced rod lead to less fatigue over a long day? Absolutely.

Lots of great balancing systems on the market - if necessary - use the one that works best for you. Of course, as has been stated by many others, if you can do without adding any extra butt weight, even better.

Take care
Roger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2010 12:47PM by roger wilson.

another advantage - if for spot use during the day fish as is with no added weiths if you choose - the kits come in three weights 2, 4 and 6 oz. Keep them in your box with jigs or in your pocket - add the one that matches up for the wt you are messing with. Seconds on and off - only one set of the hubs is needed for many rods.

The reel is in hand and does not come into play very much - you will not need a different wt for a Revo Premier, Core or a Calais.

Tony,
Read the article in RodMaker "to weight or not to weight " then decide what to do. If you're not sure of your Flip/Pitch technique - order my book "Powerhand Baitcasting" . What I know about Flippin' came from Dee Thomas - what I know about Pitchin' came from Gary Klein - all the key elements are in the book.

There are over 20 Bass techniques I use and build rods for - but Flippin' /Pitchin' is my favorite also. I'm 5'8" & 160 lbs. and closing on 70. I use an 8 ft. Flip stik standing up all day when the bite is on - this is the most perfectly balanced rod in my rod locker - because of where I place my left hand! - you can do it too - take your Flip sik and using only your left hand place it above the reel until the rod balances level - put tape on that spot. Now at the end of each Flip - your left hand transitions to that spot - holding the line with thumb and forefinger - with 3 fingers under the rod. Never release that line until you set the hook!

When money is on the line I Flip and move the boat to reach targets to 22 ft.! When I'm just fun fishing or lazy I pitch to 60 ft. Anyone can make 3-4 flips to one pitch when moving through a series of targets - try it sometime for yourself.

Rich,

I still have the flip stick that you built for me back in 2004 and am VERY interested to know what you are now using for a blank. Could I ask that you send me an email? I love the action of that particular stick and have built a couple more but with micro's for myself.. The only problem that I have is I MUCH prefer the higher modulas blanks that are next to impossible to find and I've yet to find a suitable replacement for.

thanks,
Tom

There is a large group of tournament anglers who have no clue that flipping and pitching are not the same thing - Rich, you, Gary and Dee are NOT included in that group! There are even videos of Elites on the Internet demonstrating their "flipping" technique - many are actually pitching. I really think the best way to distinguish the two is that when you are flipping the reel spool does not turn and when you are pitching it rotates.

Some bass tournament anglers palm the reel, keep the off hand on the crank and PITCH heavy creatures all day with a seven foot or longer rod. Most change hands but some do not. Many position the reel palming hand so the the line can be pinched between the fhumb and forefinger - no foregrip. They also soon realize that pushing the seat out on the blank to achieve balance cost them fish. This is the specific case benfitted by the assistance of a counter weight.

Thomas K. - I think you meant a lower modulus blank if you have one of Rich's flip sticks. Rich gets real "testy" about that subject!

Bill, you are indeed correct that the stick that I have from Rich is lower modulas! Love it, but I have to say that I also really like the high modulas version of this as well for certain presentations.

You definately hit the nail on the head with flipping!!! Far too many picth yet call it flip!

Tom

Their "technologically advanced " rods still have a foregrip!

Check with Bill or Lance, but for anyone looking for a high modulus flipping stick I believe Swampland has some of the HG40 BB blanks left.

As far as Tony’s options, Bill and Steve hit on it, but option 1 just aint going to happen. One, the reel has next to no effect since it is right at the point of rotation, use the lightest reel you can afford. Two, you could never get the reel far enough forward and still have a manageable rod to fish on a blank 7.5 foot or longer and powerful enough for most flipping or pitching techniques.

One thing back to the balancing kit on that rod. It looks very similar to the ones from Matagi. Some of it looks like it is custom for their rods, but you can get something similar from Matagi.

Mike,
I agree it does appear to at least be sourced from Matagi but personally I am not too fond of the way the rubberized cork looks on the end of it (has an unfinished look to it). I much prefer their standard balancer to this one.

Tom

Tom - I still use the same blank ( I have several) - but it is no longer available. (Shikari) However, you're in luck - if you want the same quality, only a higher modulas - there is only one I know of - Lamiglas, Certified Pro - Flip Blank - 8 ft. - I directed them how to build it - they did! Dee Thomas liked it so much he put his name on it.

General rule of thumb for Flip/Pitch blanks - for more FUN go to a higher modulas - for more MONEY go to a lower modulas blank.

Rich two more clarifications please:

1. MONEY AND FUN

Concerning the relstionship of MONEY AND FUN when moving up" to the higher modulus for a heavy duty flip stick.

Are your talking about MONEY won - or MONEY spent on buying replacements

One is FUN and the other is not! }>

2. How does a custom builder convince current day bass fishermen to accept a telescoping blank. Matching up with your choice of blanks is very difficult, if not impossible, with available one piece eight foot low modulus blanks. I can match up pretty close with a shorter blank and have oversleeves of a higher modulus made for the butt section.