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ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
JEFF WHITESIDE
(---.startouch.net)
Date: December 02, 2008 04:07PM
I AM A NEW ROD BUILDER AND NEED TO KNOW WHAT I DID WRONG?
I APPLIED EPOXY TO THE GUIDE WRAPS (I ADDED A SMALL AMOUNT OF GLITTER TO THE EPOXY, AND WHILE APPLYING EPOXY HAD TO ADD ASMALL AMOUNT OF ACCETONE TO THIN). WHEN EPOXY HAD CURED IT WAS SPONGY LIKE SYLICONE. (NOT TACKY) . I ADDED A COUPLE OF MORE COATS TO THE ROD AND IT HARDENED SOME BUT NEVER GOT TRULY HARD. I ASKED LOCAL SUPPLIER AND HE SAID HE HAS NEVER ENCOUNTERED THAT IN 20 YEARS. I ALSO HAVE HEARD NEVER TO THIN EPOXY, AND SOME SAY IT IS ALRIGHT WHITCH IS RIGHT OR IS IT JUST A PREFERENCE. THANKS FOR YOUR RESONSE Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: December 02, 2008 04:24PM
Thinning epoxy can and often does lead to problems. The people who formulate the epoxy - the ones who actually manufacture it, do not recommend thinning it.
Your problem could be from thinning it, although it is more likely you did not get an exact 1 to 1 ratio of resin to hardener. That is the usual culprit when things like this happen. Always mix a minimum of 3cc resin and 3cc hardener. This provides at least a small margin for error which smaller batches won't allow. Always stir slowly for 3 to 4 minutes. An incomplete mix can also cause a non-hardening problem. ................ Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Anonymous User
(---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: December 02, 2008 04:27PM
Couple things, your mix was not right and or temperature was to cold (thicken epoxy). When adding glitter use the finish as is do not thin, also with glitter you have to drop the finish on as opposed to brushing or spatula type spreading, when you try to brush glitter you will get thin and heavy spots in the finish, also acetone has some bad effects on some glitters and can soften and melt them also resulting in a soft finish. Just some of the possible problems you encountered, if possible do some experimenting on scrap blanks, wood dowels are ok but scrap blank pieces will tell you more. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Mike Barkley
(---.try.wideopenwest.com)
Date: December 02, 2008 04:29PM
Just my opinion, but, personally, I would never thin epoxy. What is the point. If you want thinner coats, I would use a thinner finish. I figure that the formulators knew what they were doing and changing their formula MAY change the characteristics. How long did it "cure"? Some brands take longer than others to fully cure. Were you careful to mix an EXACT 50/50 ratio? Mike (Southgate, MI) If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!! Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Greg Weaver
(---.americawest.com)
Date: December 02, 2008 06:03PM
Jeff, one question that hasn't been asked so far, what type of epoxy are you using for your finish? Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Mike Barkley
(---.try.wideopenwest.com)
Date: December 02, 2008 06:34PM
Looks like Tom, Tim and I were all typing at the same time!!! Mike (Southgate, MI) If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!! Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
JEFF WHITESIDE
(---.startouch.net)
Date: December 02, 2008 07:28PM
I WAS USING U- 40 EPOXY. I MAKES SINCE NOT TO THIN EPOXY IF THE MANUFACTURER DOES
NOT RECCOMMENT IT. BUT ON THE BQACK OF FLEX COATS CATALOG IT TALKS ABOUT THINNING WITH ACCETONE, EVEN DESCRIBES HOW AND WHY TO DO IT. THANKS FOR THE RESPONSES. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: December 02, 2008 07:44PM
The instructions for U40 LS Supreme specifically say not to thin it with anything. In fact, Ralph O'Quinn, the formulator, would have a fit if he found you had thinned his finish based on Flex Coat instructions.
When in Rome do as the Romans do... when using U40, follow their instructions, when using Flex Coat, follow their instructions. That way, you have recourse with the seller if you run into problems. ................. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
bill boettcher
(---.248.95.113.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net)
Date: December 02, 2008 07:58PM
I have always thinned finish and never had any problems. I would thin with a mid temp lacquer thinner --- MIXED finish about 5 DROPS of thinner Per CC.
Then it sounds like your finish was not fully mixed or not of a 50/50 mix. That is usually what causes it to not harden. How are you mixing it ? Syringes ? Mix well first, then add what you want. This way it is mixed well. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
JEFF WHITESIDE
(---.startouch.net)
Date: December 02, 2008 08:12PM
I WAS USING SYRINGES . AND ON THIS BATCH I MADE SURE OF THE AMOUNT BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO USE GLITTER AND THAT WAS NEW FOR ME. I THOUGHT AND UN MIXED BATCH WOULD LEAVE A SWIRL FINISH OR A AN UN EQUAL AMOUNT WOULD LEAVE A TACKY SURFACE? REMEMBER MY FINISH WAS DRY AND SPONGY. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: December 03, 2008 10:00AM
In that case, you almost certainly have solvent trapped in your epoxy.
Thinning can also change the long term properties of your epoxy. I'd stay away from thinning and try again. ............... Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Eric Nelson
(---.mgmt.ahvl.nc.charter.com)
Date: December 03, 2008 10:06AM
Try to repeat the process on a old blank or peice of foil. You can do it in two batches and four test locations:
First batch 1st) Glitter no thinner 2nd) add thinner to exsiting mix Second Batch 1st) Pure epoxy 2nd) add thinner to this mix By doing this you can eliminate the problematic ingredient. Eric (Edit) Typing while Tom was posting Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2008 10:07AM by Eric Nelson. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
roger wilson
(---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: December 03, 2008 07:07PM
Jeff,
I can be nearly 100% certain that the soft finish was caused by the addition of the acetone to the glue. As the other posts have suggested, generally a very bad idea to thin an epoxy with acetone. It also sounds like (I may have misread) that you actually brushed on acetone to the finish after it was applied????????? If you did this, you certainly have solvent entrapment in the finish. It is possible to thin some finishes with no problems. However, you need to do the thinning BEFORE finish application. The solvent must be well mixed in with the finish and mixed from the very beginning and done in only very small quantities, so that upon finish application, the solvent can vent off BEFORE the finish Kicks or starts to cure. If the finish cures, before the solvent wicks off, there will be bubbles of solvent trapped forever in the finish, resulting in a soft finish. Best thing to do in your case is to cut off the guides, strip down the areas of the rod where the guides were wrapped. Then, rewrap, and reapply correctly mixed finish with no solvents or thinnners added. Then, you will have a perfect job with no issues. Take care Roger Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Greg Foy
(---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: December 05, 2008 03:17AM
Jeff,
I am pretty new, too, and have already made some errors. I started with Flexcoat and thinned it, it took a long time to cure and I had to coat over it. Now, if I have a problem with epoxy not curing right, I just strip the guides and start again (that has happened twice, first from carelessness, second time I think I mixed 2 1/2 cc with 3 cc). I have wasted the time trying coat after coat, then having to strip it anyway. Plus, I don't like thick finishes. If the epoxy finish is getting stiff before I am done with the rod I just mix another batch. It's not worth trying to thin it with heat or especially thinner, I don't have the experience to deal with more things going wrong. "Cut your losses" works for me! I haven't tried glitter yet, though. Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
James Willard
(208.46.72.---)
Date: December 06, 2008 01:20AM
Jeff, Flex Coat offers a finish specifically for adding glitter to the finish over the wrap, give that a try. Good luck, oh ya and I have never used it before.
James Re: ROD FINISH (EPOXY)
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: December 06, 2008 06:04PM
Greg,
From a cost efficiency standpoint, you're doing the right thing. Much cheaper to mix up a little more finish, than to have to take valuable time stripping guides and rewrapping. .............. Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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