I AM A NEW ROD BUILDER AND NEED TO KNOW WHAT I DID WRONG?
I APPLIED EPOXY TO THE GUIDE WRAPS (I ADDED A SMALL AMOUNT OF GLITTER TO THE EPOXY, AND
WHILE APPLYING EPOXY HAD TO ADD ASMALL AMOUNT OF ACCETONE TO THIN). WHEN EPOXY HAD CURED IT WAS SPONGY LIKE SYLICONE. (NOT TACKY) . I ADDED A COUPLE OF MORE COATS TO THE ROD AND IT
HARDENED SOME BUT NEVER GOT TRULY HARD. I ASKED LOCAL SUPPLIER AND HE SAID HE HAS NEVER ENCOUNTERED THAT IN 20 YEARS.
I ALSO HAVE HEARD NEVER TO THIN EPOXY, AND SOME SAY IT IS ALRIGHT WHITCH IS RIGHT OR IS IT JUST A PREFERENCE. THANKS FOR YOUR RESONSE

Thinning epoxy can and often does lead to problems. The people who formulate the epoxy - the ones who actually manufacture it, do not recommend thinning it.

Your problem could be from thinning it, although it is more likely you did not get an exact 1 to 1 ratio of resin to hardener. That is the usual culprit when things like this happen.

Always mix a minimum of 3cc resin and 3cc hardener. This provides at least a small margin for error which smaller batches won't allow.

Always stir slowly for 3 to 4 minutes. An incomplete mix can also cause a non-hardening problem.


................

Couple things, your mix was not right and or temperature was to cold (thicken epoxy). When adding glitter use the finish as is do not thin, also with glitter you have to drop the finish on as opposed to brushing or spatula type spreading, when you try to brush glitter you will get thin and heavy spots in the finish, also acetone has some bad effects on some glitters and can soften and melt them also resulting in a soft finish. Just some of the possible problems you encountered, if possible do some experimenting on scrap blanks, wood dowels are ok but scrap blank pieces will tell you more.

Just my opinion, but, personally, I would never thin epoxy. What is the point. If you want thinner coats, I would use a thinner finish. I figure that the formulators knew what they were doing and changing their formula MAY change the characteristics. How long did it "cure"? Some brands take longer than others to fully cure. Were you careful to mix an EXACT 50/50 ratio?

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Jeff, one question that hasn't been asked so far, what type of epoxy are you using for your finish?

Looks like Tom, Tim and I were all typing at the same time!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I WAS USING U- 40 EPOXY. I MAKES SINCE NOT TO THIN EPOXY IF THE MANUFACTURER DOES
NOT RECCOMMENT IT. BUT ON THE BQACK OF FLEX COATS CATALOG IT TALKS ABOUT THINNING WITH
ACCETONE, EVEN DESCRIBES HOW AND WHY TO DO IT. THANKS FOR THE RESPONSES.

The instructions for U40 LS Supreme specifically say not to thin it with anything. In fact, Ralph O'Quinn, the formulator, would have a fit if he found you had thinned his finish based on Flex Coat instructions.

When in Rome do as the Romans do... when using U40, follow their instructions, when using Flex Coat, follow their instructions. That way, you have recourse with the seller if you run into problems.

.................

I have always thinned finish and never had any problems. I would thin with a mid temp lacquer thinner --- MIXED finish about 5 DROPS of thinner Per CC.

Then it sounds like your finish was not fully mixed or not of a 50/50 mix. That is usually what causes it to not harden.
How are you mixing it ? Syringes ? Mix well first, then add what you want. This way it is mixed well.

I WAS USING SYRINGES . AND ON THIS BATCH I MADE SURE OF THE AMOUNT BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO USE GLITTER AND THAT WAS NEW FOR ME. I THOUGHT AND UN MIXED BATCH WOULD LEAVE A SWIRL FINISH OR A AN UN EQUAL AMOUNT WOULD LEAVE A TACKY SURFACE? REMEMBER MY FINISH WAS DRY AND SPONGY.

In that case, you almost certainly have solvent trapped in your epoxy.

Thinning can also change the long term properties of your epoxy. I'd stay away from thinning and try again.

...............

Try to repeat the process on a old blank or peice of foil. You can do it in two batches and four test locations:


First batch
1st) Glitter no thinner
2nd) add thinner to exsiting mix

Second Batch
1st) Pure epoxy
2nd) add thinner to this mix

By doing this you can eliminate the problematic ingredient.


Eric

(Edit)
Typing while Tom was posting



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2008 10:07AM by Eric Nelson.

Jeff,
I can be nearly 100% certain that the soft finish was caused by the addition of the acetone to the glue.

As the other posts have suggested, generally a very bad idea to thin an epoxy with acetone.

It also sounds like (I may have misread) that you actually brushed on acetone to the finish after it was applied?????????
If you did this, you certainly have solvent entrapment in the finish.

It is possible to thin some finishes with no problems. However, you need to do the thinning BEFORE finish application. The solvent must be well mixed in with the finish and mixed from the very beginning and done in only very small quantities, so that upon finish application, the solvent can vent off BEFORE the finish Kicks or starts to cure. If the finish cures, before the solvent wicks off, there will be bubbles of solvent trapped forever in the finish, resulting in a soft finish.

Best thing to do in your case is to cut off the guides, strip down the areas of the rod where the guides were wrapped. Then, rewrap, and reapply correctly mixed finish with no solvents or thinnners added.
Then, you will have a perfect job with no issues.

Take care
Roger

Jeff,
I am pretty new, too, and have already made some errors. I started with Flexcoat and thinned it, it took a long time to cure and I had to coat over it. Now, if I have a problem with epoxy not curing right, I just strip the guides and start again (that has happened twice, first from carelessness, second time I think I mixed 2 1/2 cc with 3 cc). I have wasted the time trying coat after coat, then having to strip it anyway. Plus, I don't like thick finishes. If the epoxy finish is getting stiff before I am done with the rod I just mix another batch. It's not worth trying to thin it with heat or especially thinner, I don't have the experience to deal with more things going wrong. "Cut your losses" works for me! I haven't tried glitter yet, though.

Jeff, Flex Coat offers a finish specifically for adding glitter to the finish over the wrap, give that a try. Good luck, oh ya and I have never used it before.
James

Greg,

From a cost efficiency standpoint, you're doing the right thing.

Much cheaper to mix up a little more finish, than to have to take valuable time stripping guides and rewrapping.

..............