I know....this is a rod BUILDING site. Should be a lot of knowledge out there though about my subject. My wife passed last year, and a bit too early after the funeral I had a chance to go sit on a lake for six months out of state. Friends encourage me to get away for awhile. In that process I purchased a lot of rods and reels off the internet. Think subconciously it was a way of coping. Problem now is how do I match up the reels to the rods? Surely there is some way to narrow down the choices for each rod. When I check out a combo it always balances somewhere near the end of the grip.

soooooo....I put rods on a metal book-end. I held the rod in my hand to determine where I like to hold it. Made a mark I can erase on the grip....right in the middle of my hand grip. Set the rod on a metal book-end and cut off a plastic sobe life water jug. Tied a string to it to make a small hanging bucket. Placed it exackery on the reel seat where the middle of a reel foot would be...marked with a pencil also.

Anyway added pennies till I got a balance.

BTW I did this because friends just tell me if they buy a 4wt rod they buy a 3wt reel to put on it. I have to sort things out. (I would do this anyway. the incurable optimist....my handle should be tinker bell but ugh!)

Well I am not sure what I have found out. If anything. I have some rods that are 9' and the theory seems to be close. However I can vary quite a bit in a reel weight and it still feels good. BUT....I have a 11' 6wt that I really like. I have a 10' Sage 7wt that is a club. This 11' 6wt is really sweet. Haven't caught or played a fish yet. Judgement therefore about setting the hook, moving the fly....etc i dunno.

BUTTTT....to balance it weighs 16.6 ounces! That seems a bit ridiculous to me. Also I put my rather heavy 7.2 oz reel with a line on top of that...on a (10' six weight ...I made a mistake here in original post, it was a 10' FIVE wt rod and the reel was tooo heavy per my friend) and it balances pretty good....but while out fishing had trouble casting....and my pretty darn smart partner said it was because my reel is too heavy.

How in the heck should I go about matching the reels to the rods? Calling it a 4wt reel is meaningless. I have a reel, smallest one made I think by a company...well it is a Ross CO-1 I think. That is a small reel I intended to use for bream. IT HAS 485' of line! I don't need a reel with that much line to fish for bluegill. Can you imagine...on a highway...divided highway 500' ahead! Probably only need a fly line. Probably a DT and half a fly line. That brings up another question. What's a good large arbor light weight reel for short distance bream fishing?

Anyway.....the small reel that is not a large arbor.....took 135 yds of backing and 30yds of a line. Gotta be a better way. I categorize a reel class as what the maximum size the line weight it will hold with adequate backing. So a 4wt reel could actually in probability be a 7wt reel. I was going to match reel weights to the rods...by balancing the rods and then matching an appropriate weighted reel to it. Was going to keep a log of every rod and the weight it needed to balance. Then keep a log of the weight of every reel. Then match them up. All I did was outsmart myself again. Of course that is not very hard to do.

Back to the rod reel match. I have a six weight reel I cast a bit on the 11'. Thought for awhile it was feeling pretty good.....till my hand got tired and I realized I was having to hold UP on the rod because the reel was too light.

How to match up? What to do...what to do......

Any helpful comments would be appreciated. Down the nose talk or sarcasm will not be accepted very well.

Course.....I never see that on this website.....like that OTHER board I frequent.

Jim Williams



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2008 08:44AM by Jim Williams.

In my judgement it has nothing to do with the reels, you are holding a 10 ft stick in the air, waving it from the short end, with a a heavy line flaying around in the air, that's where your fatigue comes from. No amount of balancing can fix that.
I have a 9 ft 9 in Loomis GL3 8 wt fly rod I rarely use anymore after taking it on a 4 day trip steelhead fishing in Canada, my arm and shoulder were toast for 2 weeks. I now use my spey rods or 9 ft Dan Crafts, though I use my DC 10 ft, Sig V, 7 wt on day trips because it's such a fun rod to fish.
I use lighter reels such as the Sage 3400 or Lamson Litespeeds in various sizes.

The numbering system used for fly reels has always been a bit silly. You can put any line on any reel. There is no such thing as a "3-weight reel" or a "6-weight reel." The reel will never know what line it holds.

Reels should be purchased and matched to the rod based on 2 main things - required line retrieval amount (larger diameter - more line taken up per turn of the handle - and no, the arbor size has nothing to do with this so be careful here) and weight.

There is nothing wrong with using a reel to achieve the desired balance point on the rod. But you have to consider what you're doing with the rod. My river fishing for smallmouth bass requires that I keep the rod tip very low to the water when working the fly. I'm helped by a rod that balances forward of hand by just a bit. If I were standing in a small stream and needed to keep the rod tip very high to work the line over rocks, etc., then I might prefer a rod that balanced behind my hand a bit.

Outside of maybe putting a big game fly reel on a small stream trout rod, or a 2.5 inch lightweight reel on a 9' 12-weight rod, there really isn't any wrong way to match fly reels to rods. But a little thought concerning what it is that you're going to be doing with the outfit can help you match things up in a way that will help rather than hinder what you want to do.

..............

Jim,
IMO you should first decide whether you belong to "the-lighter-is-better" team, or the "heavier-is-better-team". For some time I belonged to the former. My reels (for salt water - 7-10wt) were the likes of Ross & Waterworks. Then I coundn't pass-up the Able 3N. Which is not a light reel, an I found that I liked the weight. SOOOO, what you should do is strip off an appropriate amount of line on the lawn and put the reel on the ground - not attached to the rod. String the rod and cast without a reel on the rod. Some people like the feel and these people would like a reel as lite as possible. I, personally, feel the weight of the fly line too much and prefer a weight (reel) to counter the effects of the line weight. You can then add a reel and even some lead (I used sinkers) taped to the butt of the rod until you get a feel you like. I now use a Bauer MX5 , which is just under 9oz without line on any rod I have from 6-10wt. I jave some reels that are 9.5 oz and I like them even on a 6wt Sage TCR. Tom is correct - don't get caught-up in the reel designations. Just use a reel suitable for the fishing you will do. Do the above test and see which "team" you would like to join.
Herb

Tom,
That was exactly my point. I don't think most people count the footage on their reels. Maybe for bream they buy a small reel, fill it with backing and line and go fish.
(not even knowing how much backing they have used up) Arbor DOES have a lot to do with it. That is my whole, well, part of my point. I can still fish for bream with that reel, but I feel ridicoulous with it. 485' of line to fish for bluegill. Silly....as you said. I certainly am not going to cast that far. The arbor was my sore spot. A reel designed to be a 2wt, 3wt, 4wt...etc has such a small arbor that you can put tons of line on it. So I agree wholeheartedly. A 3wt could hold a lot of line. And that is actually part two of my question. How do you get a reel for fishing for small fish...with a large arbor....so you can truly fish with a 1--2-3 wt line and not have 450' of line on the reel? I could probably use a DT line and cut it in half, and put it on a reel and have adequate line to fish for bream. Say 15 yards of line and 50 yards of backing just in case a big bass took you out. I am not of the tiny reel group. I do not want to wind forever to get my line in. And equip two reels with the same line because only using half of it on each reel.

Herb, I think you are zeroing in on my problem. And that is "how do I like to fish". Well, I dunno yet. I like your testing idea. Most of my friends are of the "lightest reel" you can put on the rod....any rod.....to fish it. Well I have so many reels with different weights it isn't even funny. I don't mean designated weights....I mean I have weighed them all and made a list. My arm does not get tired in fly fishing. That has not been a problem. I just wanted to make a good match between rod and reel. I did notice fishing the 11' rod my hand getting tired of holding the tip up because the reel was too light. That is the first time I have experienced that problem. Usually any reel close to matching the rod was ok. I know the line has a lot to do with the way the rod behaves. I guess I have a lot of experiementing to do. I do need to find out what kind of balance "I" like on a rod. I have found that if you go too far the rod just won't fish well because of the extreme out of balance. At least....too heavy a reel on a light rod you are always having to hold the tip down.....and in the 11 footer....too light a reel my hand became weary of holding the tip down (ooooops...big mistake here.....hand got tired because of having to hold the rod tip UP....because the reel was too lite for counter balance....added this little correction midnite Sat nite) because the reel was too light. I never experienced any of these with a balanced rod. But icw balance.....my technique of weighing a rod to balance and then trying to match a reel weight to it.....doesn't seem to be the precise cookie cutter approach. I do not care about looks. I just want a fishing pole. So if I have a BA LAII on a short 2 weight rod....if I like the way it fishes...that's fine with me.

Thanks
Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2008 03:06AM by Jim Williams.

Pick the combo that is the most comfortable for you to use and cast regardless of designation. Concentrate on the fishing at hand more than matching the equipment you use and you will become a better fisherman and enjoy it more. I for one have too much fishing equipment and get no more pleasure fishing at 75 years of age than i did with a hand me down fly rod at 12. Been there and done that!

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

If we fly anglers spent more time improving our casting stroke and less time fiddling with our equipment we might well be better off. Learning an efficient double-haul and using the big muscles of the back and legs while casting, as batters and golfers do, will lessen arm and shoulder fatigue at least as much as adjusting tackle weight and balance.

A fly rod is a flexible beam that should be balanced at the desired fulcrum. I prefer that to be at the point on the grip where my index finger falls, not in the middle of my hand. You can put anything on the reel seat of the proper weight and it will balance, even a rock. The size and type of fly reel does make a difference. An important factor is the circumference of the spool. You want it big enough so that the line is not tightly coiled, especially in colder weather. This is important in keeping the line usable and, more important, determines the rate of retrieve (fish on or not). The stated "weight" of the reel is simply an indicator of what line size the manufacturer feels best matches the reel, but one shouldn't deviate too much from it. Arbor size is important because the spool is meant to be filled, either with backing or "air". If you don't need a lot of backing, a large arbor reel is the way to go since "air" is lighter than backing, so the final fishing weight of the reel is reduced for the same circumference. As a result you can put a larger diameter reel than the traditional size on the rod and still have a nicely balanced, line saving, fish fighting outfit. This is especially true with trout reels, where the conventional "3-weight" size can be very small. In the end, what feels right in your hand when you're fishing is the only real reel determinant.

Jim,

Whatever reel you get, you want it full of line so that you can take advantage of the greatest possible retrieval ratio. If the backing is just going to be used for filling, and you don't expect it to really see any "action," I'd go out and buy some 30 or even 50lb dacron and use that as backing. That way, even a large reel can be quickly filled so that the fly line is right up on top. And, when you get up into the realm of say, 30lb to 50lb dacron, they take up a lot of room so you're not shelling out for 400 to 500 yards of backing.

Just a tip, if you didn't already know it, most of what is sold as "fly line backing" is the exact stuff sold as dacron fishing line. It's just been relabeled as fly line backing and the price marked up about 300% to 400%. Buying something like Bass Pro "Magi-Braid" is pretty inexpensive (get the regular dacron, not the super braid stuff) and works very well as fly line backing.

....................

this thread is making my head hurt....


eric
fresno, ca.

Post deleted



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2008 02:41AM by Jim Williams.

Wow, Jim, that was a bit harsh...

I come from the "lighter is better" camp. Let's just consider basic physics. Let's say you balance your rod perfectly with the reel and line of your choice so that the so-called fulcrum point is right where you like it (front of the grip, middle, whatever). Now what happens to that fulcrum point as soon as you take 30 or more feet of the line OFF of the reel and put it out in front of the tip of the rod? Where is the fulcrum point now?

I belive that the less weight your arm has to lift and throw all day the better, and this is much more significant than where the "fulcrum" point is in a non-fishing, static mode.


Walt

Walt,
Thanks for the reply. I already had those questions in my mind. Bear in mind I am not experienced at this. I myself have wondered if I would want to balance a rod with a reel.....empty, or a reel with line on it, or a reel with line with line hanging out the end of the rod....or.....since most false casting or final casting is something longer than 25' in general.....would one be spending most of their casting time with say 30' of line out.....casting it back and forth......would one want to balance the rod with 30 fit of line pulled out and laying on the ground. I just didn't go that far with my question. It just seems that since so many things are so quantified......and so much knowledge and skill is demonstrated on rod building....that there would be some definitive way to balance a rod and reel. If I only had a couple of reels and rods it would not be a big thing. But I collected over six months without keeping track. I have a BOATLOAD of reels and rods. It doesn't seem very efficient to just start sticking various reels on various rods to see how they feel. Most of the reels are empty....but several have lines on them already. Give this a lot of pondering and you may begin to see the challenge to a rookie like me. I have weighed all the reels. They range from 3.4 oz, 3.7 oz, 3.9, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.5, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9, 5.1, 5.2, 5.4, 5.5, 5.7, 6.3, 6.4, 6.6, 6.7, 6.9, 7.2, 8.0. Take into account several of these reels came with 4 spools. Now consider various weight rods from 1wt to 10 wt, in vairous lengths and actions. Most of the reels will hold much more line than they are rated for. So......I was trying to find the balance point of every rod...and then match a reel weight to it. I then decided to ask....because I don't know........and that is......WHAT IS A GOOD BALANCE of a rod and reel. I dunno. So how can I match them up. I don't even know what I want.

Sorry.....what a mess. Just trying to explain the reason behind the question. Seems like so much of everything has such a definite formula....and so I was looking for that formula to match rod and reel weight. For example I have a Battenkill LA-II that looks big for a 3 wt. But I have a Sage 3wt it balances perfectly on. I bought the reel new with 3 extra spools. Intent being somewhere between a 3-5wt I could go out on a lake and have a floating line, a sink tip line, an interemmediate line and a full sink line. Now I am not sure which rod I want to put it on.

Oh well.....probably making a lot of heads hurt. Just a question. I hope to find out what I like...and then sell off all that I am not that fond of. It is fun. To have that problem huh? So many rods....so little time. I guess it won't be a step by step process.....but a process of trial and error. I should learn a lot after I am through.

BTW......supposedly if you are not bending your wrist in a cast.....which is supposedly the correct way to cast.....then the fulcrum would be your elbow? This throws a little mud into the ....balance it where question.

But to see all my rods and reels....it is a daunting task......for a rookie like me.

Thanks for all the help.

Seriously,

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2008 10:09AM by Jim Williams.