Searched the archives, and came up with this thread, but it doesn't really answer my question: [www.rodbuilding.org]

I'm building on a Lami XMG50 LS782 (1/8 - 3/8), and the SC5 63 MHXF or whateveer the letters are. Walleye jigging from a boat, will probably have to do some casting, but I'm not 100% sure.

I've built myself several spinners on rods rated a little more than these blanks, casting unweighted plastics from shore, where it was important to cast as far as possible. So a grip about 9" for me allowed my to comfortable cast with 2 hands on this style of rod.

I've seen too many SPinning handles which are like 3-5" long, where I can only imagine people are casting with one hand, or not really casting much at all so the leverage loss isn't that big of a deal. What are the advantages of such a short handle? For the fishing I'm planning on doing, would it be best to build the rod with this short handle, or just build it with a longer handle the way I have been?

I'm not concerned with teh reel seat part, I know wha tI'm doing up there, and I don't know what I like since I've never done this type of fishing before, so I"m kind of expecting to get it wrong and have to re-wrap the rods before my next trip out there in the Spring.

Walleye rods make up 50% of my builds. I think you will like it best with the 9" rear grip as the rod will balance better which will improve your "feel". Also, just cast a few times in to the wind with one of those stubby rear grips and you will want to run the rod thru a wood chipper! You could go as short as a 7" rear grip if your really wanted shorter - but I think you will like the 9" best.

Just my $.02,
Marc

Hi Billy,
the guys are referring to the rear grip cork only in that post you put up. By the time you added your reel seat and perhaps a front grip you would be right in that 9 to 11 inch range. That said - with standard handles and even with Tennessee grips I find that about 10-11 inches is really ideal for the use you are building these up for - and that any longer than that is a waste. You already know about split grips and the veritcal jigging rod is really where these would shine (just build them so the front of the cork is at about 10-11 inches) - since lightweight is crucial and you can still use the small piece of cork at the butt end for two handed casts should you do some jig pitching. Just my opinion - but what I build are mainly walleye rods. Enjoy and keep us posted on your progress,
Chuck Ungs

I like 7" at a minimum.

I typically mess around with where the reel seat goes to get the rod to balance well and that determines my handle length more than anything. I hate adding weight to a really light rod.

At maximum length, the butt of the rod comes to within 3" of the tip of my elbow when the rod is held in a fishing position. I think that works out to about 9 1/2".

Tie into a 27" Walleye once with a 5" rear grip and you'll wish you had another 4" of grip to get under your forearm. Walleyes don't put up spectacular fights like Smallmouth do, they just bulldog right down to the bottom and refuse to move. Getting the grip into your forearm is really helpful.




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Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Billy, for mostly vertical jigging I'd have to agree with Chuck Ungs. I've been doing split grips with Fuji NPS seats downlocking. I use 3 or 4 cork rings plus a composite for the butt, a 2 1/4 to 3 1/2" split area, then two cork rings at the back of the seat, and one cork at the front. I cut 1" off of the threads. Depending on how you arrange it you will end up with 11 to 12 1/2 inches from the butt to the front cork ring.

Personally, I prefer the shorter handle (11" total) for jigging. It's very comfortable and would be even better flocked.

Chuck

[www.rodbuilding.org]
[www.rodbuilding.org]
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Thanks. I quickly read the first 2 questions, ran into my basement to play around, and realize how poorly I worded my question. What I was asking, and what you guys have already told me is - the length from teh end of teh blank/butt cap to the MIDDLE of the reel seat. As soon as I started playin gI realize I didn't word my question properly.

Regardless, I found out where the rod balanced best using a spare cork grip & a plate reel seat taped on, with a cut off for teh butt split, and the center of the seat in 10" with my reel attached. I am going to assume, based on teh responses - that those short butts have their place but this application is 100% not it.

Mark, for the record: we don't have woodchippers in NYC, and if it weren't for the Soprano's, I don't think I'd even know what that is, lol.
Chuck & Chuck - I am going to make a different reel seat on both of these rods, one using the NPS - I have to figure out how to get it mounted the way I want as it's hopefully going to be a little bit different that a "traditional" method to mount the reel seat, along the lines of what Stevie Vibronics is doing with the tubing. The other will be a variation of this grip, which I think is going to be really comfortable, albeit heavier than a standard Tenn handle: [www.rodbuilding.org]
Matt - don't you know the routine? You build a rod for a fishing trip, get all pumped up to catch trophy fish, in your example 27" Walleye, and I'll end up being the Sculpin Master or whatever "trash" fish there is that people call the "mother in-law" fish. lol.

Appreciate the responses so far. Thanks

Hey Billy - often in walleye country you would be catching sheepshead or carp in that case. Maybe we should just work on a good drag-the bottom nitecrawler rod, and you could at least work on catching the biggest bottome sucker of the day! Could probably build it with all the left over, unused parts from other rods !!

Have fun - Marc

Hi Billy
The most important part, of the length for your rod handle is, what length of handle can you handle infront of your Body ,with out having a problem of being uncomfortable or hitting your stomach, it would be for every person a different length.
Best Regards Mark Crouse- The Munich Rod man

Mark, hope everything is going well with you. It's pretty sad when handle length is determined by gut thickness, lol. NOthing worse than a rod butt that catches on your stomach or your clothes. Winter fishing conventional wheee you cast & switch hands is teh absolute worst. A rod which is no problem when it's warmer becomes a major hassle once you throw on a few layers....or you gain some Hibernation weight.

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NOthing worse than a rod butt that
> catches on your stomach or your clothes. Winter
> fishing conventional wheee you cast & switch
> hands is teh absolute worst. A rod which is no
> problem when it's warmer becomes a major hassle
> once you throw on a few layers....or you gain some
> Hibernation weight.
>
> NERBS - North East Rod Builders

And if you're out pounding rollers on a windy day you add a life vest over your warm layers!

Billy, I have found 9 inches from the rear of the reel seat to be about tbe best. Most people I measure for butt length will fit this measurement. Figure the butt will touch your forearm about 2-3 inche from your elbow.

i just got done building a walleye jiggin rod on a 6' 5S60MF blank using an american tackle aero comfort grip (with split grip) and I have to tell ya.... thats one comfortable grip, surprisingly light weight also. 4 cork ring butt, 5 inch open split, 6 ring grip, then the reel seat.... looks nice (albeit a bit different), comfortable, and should be just the ticket!

Jigging rod blanks highly depend on body of waters that are to be fished. I fish mostly larger rivers (detroit and st. clair) that need 1/2-3/4 oz jigs depending on flow and depth. from what i understand in minnesota they use quite a few 1/16 to 3/8oz jigs on the waters out there and my rod would be wayyy too much for that. maybe a sjr 721 or even 720 loomis would be the tickey for that kinda stuff.

to me balance point isn't that important as I can vary that myself.... its more where I can lock the rod into my forearm for fighting a good sized fish.... find that point and work from there. just my .02

Steve, I think at some point I will be fishingthe Detroit River, maybe with Mike Barkley...but I dont' think he's aware of that yet, lol. I think I'm gonna fish the Mississippi near where the casino(s?) is/are. For the "heavier" jigs you mention, I have quite a few rods I use for Fluke fishing which I would love to be able to use and compare the fight of a Walleye, Sheepshead, or Carp to that of a Fluke or Flounder as everyone outside of the NE calls them.

For my own rods I use an 8 1/2 " reargrip w/ no. 17 reel seat and a 1 1/4 " foregrip.
Customer rods depend on customer .
Tom Cooney

I don't know how they will compare since i've never caught a fluke/flounder, but I bet a decent sheephead would give it a run for its money. Walleye are mostly hard headshakes as they try to stay down. The upper detroit river theres a better chance for a mixed bag of smallies and eyes... with a stray musky every now and again.

I haven't really fished the croixs yet as I do have a favorite loomis that I use, but I want to give them an honest evaluation as I can get the blanks for noticeably cheaper (and what can i say, the s4 blue does look sweet with a matching quantum reel, LOL).

Billy,

Anytime!!! You need to plan a spring trip up here wit Al (mid April to mid May) for the spring run. Like Steve said on the Detroit river, it's vertical jigging in strong current 6/7 mph and the key is absolutely VERTICAL (you have to move the same speed as the current). They have an almost imperceptible bite and you need an immediate hook up. Any slack or line angle and you can hang it up. It's relayively shallow compared to what you're used to and fishing is mostly 10 to 25 feet so it's generally in the boat very quickly. enerally, they pull down, you pull up. Not really fighters! River smallies, musky and sheepshead will wake you fast, though! You want a fast/ex fast action 6 to 6 1/2" Casting is not generally effective at all with jigs and is rarely done!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2007 07:59PM by Mike Barkley.

Mike, I spoke with AL this afternoon, and he said the same thing about the Spring. Let me get this first trip under my belt before I plan the next one...but I more than likely will come out there for at least a day of Detroit River fishing, as well as a gathering at Tom Cooney's.

Hello again Billy,
There are a good variety of floating casinos along the 'sippi all along Iowa shores and the fishing would be good as a rule. And we have days over here where the guy who only fishes vertical is not catching the most fish - so don't be afraid to think that you may spend some time pitching jigs as well. Some days the fish want the presentation vertical and somedays they want it horizontal - some days they don't care.

That said - the size of jigs used on the Miss vary a bit depending on the characteristics of each of the individual pools. Many times the jigs will run in the same sizes as the Detroit River jigging range I have used - we often use from 1/2 to 3/4 oz vertical on my favorite pool at Guttenburg. For vertical jigging with such rods I seldom feel there is any advantage in having the entire handle any longer than 10-11 inches. Any longer than that and they do wind up getting in the way more IMHO. Keep in mind that you will spend a lot more time lifting and dropping that jig than anything else (if you hit a great day that may not be the case - they are few and far between... but I have had a few 100 fish days - it's been a few years though.) Also the 6 foot blank range for vertical jigging is about as long as a person needs. The other item you should really consider is Fireline or Powerpro in the 8 - 10 pound range - phenomenal stuff... drastically increases the rate of the learning curve, cuts through current well and the feedback from the bottom is keen.

For pitching jigs a bit longer than 6' blank can be advantageous to add some range and increase the coverage of a sweeping hookset - I personally feel that on the 'sippi the point of diminishing returns is between 6'6"and 6'8" - sliding off rapidly after 7 feet. (Minnesota lake guys would lean towards the greater length but current and bottom variation negates that.) For pitching here we can range from 1/16 on up to perhaps 1/4 - rarely much heavier than that - much of the action there comes from 3/16 or 1/8. Your 63MXF will serve you well in either instance - I am not familiar with the Lami from Putter so I cannot really inform you on it's utility for both functions. Keep in mind that a rod rated for casting up to 3/8 oz. is still perfectly suited to vertical jig with 5/8 oz. - the strain added to the rod to just pick up and drop a jig under water is much less than actually casting it.

Wishing you the best on the variety of builds for handles you are trying - and also with the little woman - I can't hope to offer you advise there because after more than 21 years I still struggle to understand my other half! Good luck there - remember fishing is cheaper than therapy (until you discover high modulus graphite and titaniums guides anyway ;) ) and if you get out towards Iowa I would enjoy meeting and fishing with you. Chuck Ungs

Chuck Ungs




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2007 12:06AM by Chuck Ungs.

Thanks for the info Chuck. The more I hear about Walleye fishing, the more it sounds like Fluke bucktailing over here. I'm building both of these Spinning, but I might have to bring along a conventional especially if we fish a location which has a strong current/fast drift. I don't know how it would work, but in that specific condition it sounds like fishing in freespool so you can quickly drop back after a missed bite might keep the lure/baitjig in the strike zone enough for teh fish to come back and hit it a second time.

AS far as rod ratings go...lol. The rods I use rated 1/2-1oz I usually use for 1-4oz jigs, and in a pinch I'll use 5oz. Casting weight differs from flipping & bouncing the bottom weight, it's nice to have a blank weighing under 2oz about to bouncs 4oz jigs all day without a problem, while otehrs are using heavy boat rods (or poles YUCK) dragging 6-8oz using Mono.

PS - I wasn't aware they still made Mono, lol.

Billy, I'm glad to see that the rod project is coming along for you. I can't say much that hasn't already been said, but I use an uplocking spinning rod with a 7 1/2" rear handle. That's measured from the front of the rear grip to the butt. If it's a down locking between 8" to 9". I find that to long a rear grip gets in the way when jigging. You will want to watch out for the fresh water drum (Sheephead) I have hooked into a couple in the 15 pound range and they will give you a ride so you don't want to go to short.