I applied the Decal Connection waterslide decal over threadmaster (10 second water soak), used MicroSet and it went on perfectly. Brushed out bubbles/extra fluid with another layer of MicroSet. Still perfect. Blotted off extra fluids. Then, applied coat of MicroSol.

Here's the problem. 30 minutes later, went to do a second brushing of Micro Sol and the decal has rather large white areas- kinda looks like it didn't bond in some areas as it dried. Is it supposed to do this? I apllied a second coat of Micro Sol, then it looked fine... now I'm just waiting. Is this a normal part of the drying process? I've never used the Micro Set/Sol before.


By the way, thanks to Bill Stevens and Andy Dear for all of the advice so far!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2006 08:57PM by Daniel Hall.

A pictorial on how to apply water based decals and the proper use of Micro-Set and Micro-Sol were in a recent copy of RodMaker.

You should not have any white areas under the decal. It sounds as if you may have left the decal in the water too long, which has removed some of the adhesive. This is one of the most common mistakes when using the decals. However, I can 't say for sure if this is what happened to you.

You could contact Decal Connection and ask for their advice. You bought more than one decal, I assume.

..............

Thanks Tom, I can't figure it out. I followed the pictorial and Bill Stevens' advice (pretty much the same) and only left the decal in for 10 seconds.

Thankfully, I bought a bunch!

I always leave it in water for less than five seconds. Tom has a point - possibly removed adhesive. The RM article and Decal Connection recommend five seconds

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I think I figured it out... I was pressing the extra fluids out then applying the MicroSol immediately without giving it a chance to dry first. On the third try, I allowed the decal to dry for 30 minutes before applying the first coat of MicroSol... it seems to be doing the trick.

In the trouble shooting sidebar to the article, it mentionds that cloudy spots under the decal are almost always due to the adhesive being removed either by leaving it in the water too long, or moving the decal around on the rod blank surface to much. Just something to keep in mind for next time.

.............

The difference between 5 and 10 seconds may not the issue. The type of paper and temp of the water could easily change things in this light. Your comment about "brush out excessive" fluids may hold the key. You could have transferred some of the adhesive to the top of the surface when you slid the thing into place. You may need to let the Micro Set pretreat sit a second or two before you place the decal to let some of the water excess run off the top surface. If you touch the decal while placing try not to transfer fluids from around the edge to the top of the decal. Wet your finger first and this will tend to keep the adhesive transfer to a minimum. Also the decal may kinda shrivel a little after the first pass with Micro Set on top. This is normal - just let it sit until the Set has dried and it the decal will shrink and lay flat and shrink into place. This is what as referred to in the text I sent you as "krinkley". The size of the decal has something to say about the amount of "air" trapped during initial placement. It is much easier to do a long rectangular decal than a large square one. When I do a name and city under the name I use double spacing between the lines of text and cut and apply two separate decals to minimize the amount of fooling around I have to do to get any bubbles out from under the decal.

Here is a link to an example of sizes of decals and cuts:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Here is part of the text that Daniel was referring to:

4. Slide decal off backing with wet finger into place and use water wet finger to get the decal into final position. Avoid excessive sliding. When the thing slides around too much the adhesive will transfer off the backing and create a white cloud around the edge when drying.

5. Apply one brush stroke with Micro Set Solution. Adjust position if required.

6. Moisten high quality soft paper towell, Coffee Mate Filter paper or wet finger slightly and firmly and carefully press decal in place. If this is done carefully you will not find it necessary to prick air bubbles with a pin later to get decal to lay totally flat. Allow to dry. It may shrink up and look krinkley during this stage but it will shrink back into place.

7. Apply one brush stroke Micro Sol and wait one hour. After the application of Micro Sol do not touch the decal surface for at least one hour. The Micro Sol is the solvent system that shrinks and softens decals. The Micro Sol can also be used to remove decals that have not been covered with finish.

8. If you see a "haze" around decal during the drying period apply one more stroke of Micro Sol to give the decal a clear, painted on look.

The haze is probably due to adhesive transfer and mixing of the two solutions before proper time interval to dry.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2006 10:09AM by Bill Stevens.

According to the folks that make them, the difference between 5 and 10 seconds can actually make all the difference in such an instance. I had always gotten pretty good results with these decals but never really could get them to totally disappear. After the article was submitted, I tried to be very careful not to exceed the 5 second immersion by even a few seconds. The result is that now the decals I apply totally disappear into the background.

Not discounting the other fine tips you've offered here and any of them could be Daniels' problem, but when a manufacturer goes to great lengths to stress the 5 second immersion and cautions against any longer period of time, I'd try to abide by it as closely as possible.


...........

Don't know about 10 secondes being too long but 25 certainly is! Since dropping back to pretty close to 5 my decal backgrounds totally disappear. Who would have thought that something so simple as a decal could be screwed up. I guess since we all put them on plastic models when we were kids that it must have seemed like there was nothing special that had to followed to apply them. Go figure.

It all looked good so I put on the Threadmaster.... only to find a cloudy decal this morning.

Bummer. In the past my decals have turned out perfect using water only... I'll keep trying the microset/sol though, see if I can improve.

How long after you put the decal on did you apply finish??? Don't know how much difference it makes but I wait overnight! I use TM and have never had a cloudy decal with any finish.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Thanks Mike- I suspect me impatience cost me. I waited about 5 hours.

There was some filmy residue on the blank form the microsol/set that I wiped off, but I think there may have been some on the decal too. That, or I trapped some moisture by not waiting long enough.

Just a guess, but I would suspect that may be your problem

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Another tip to avoid contamination is to use only distilled water. Tap water may leave behind unsightly residue.

Daniel: I think it would be best to let all see what some more of the stuff you had to work with before the fact.

9. Wait a minimum of 12 hours to apply finish. If you rush the finish you may have a wavey edge around the decal.

Caution: Change the water every time you place a decal. Use a devoted soft hair brush for each solution and do not mix with brushes used for applying Flexcoat CP.

The results you experienced could be expected by shortcutting the steps the way you did.

I am not sure of what the Sol is but it smells like glacial acetic acid and is a solubilizer of the decal film. When you put the Sol on top of the still wet Set, anionic surfactant, they somehow mixed together to form a substance consisting of the two chemical phases. I still do not know if you have something on top of the decal or if you are seeing an outline of the complete decal outline through the Threadmaster. The finish is not a participant in what is going on. You should do a blind test with a piece of the scrap decal paper all the way through the finish step following the Rodmaker or the procedure you have and see if the results are what you want. Change the 10 seconds in the write up I sent to 5 sec.

I will try the blind test...

I did the first with tap water, but after that with sterile/distilled water.

I'm pretty sure the decal was a little moist. The decal is applied over a thread butt wrap, 2 coats of Threadmaster with another coat on top. The decal looked clear when I applied Threadmaster. Now, when I look at the decal, the print looks perfect, but the area of the translucent decal is slighly hazy and the dark green thread under looks a lighter, hazy green. You don't actually see the edges- just a uniform haziness in the shape of the decal. This decal was applied "by the book"- letting the MicroSet dry before adding MicroSol, only 5 seconds, etc. The only variance that I can think of was the 5 hour wait.

AHA! Now we are getting somewhere. Your decal evidently is a lot better than the grim image you painted. I could envision a narly mess with your earlier post with dimples everywhere. Hopefully, you can get the little shadow to disapear on the next rod. If you take most rods out in the sun and use a magnifying glass you can probably detect a faint decal shadow. It seems like this rod is fine when held an arms length away in a dim room! I will bet that when you wait the full term for the solutions to dry completely you will be a happy camper.

A little follow-up post here.

I figured out the problem. Fishing with the rod this weekend, I noticed that the uniform haziness was fading, as if the moisture was drying out. However, the lettering on the decal was fading also. Then I remembered my fatal error! Before I went to apply TM over the decal, the blank had some fine residue on it from the evaporated MicroSol. I used alcolol to clean it and I bet I got some alcohol on the decal. That was just minutes before applying the TM, so I think I sealed the alcohol in there which was evaporating, but was also dissolving the lettering on the decal.

After that, I applied several other decals. On all of these decals, there was a haze left over from the Micro Sol after drying the decal overnight, but I just buffed it out on the blank and decal with a soft paper towel. Then I applied the TM and they turned out perfect!!!


Thanks everyone for all the help, I really appreciate it.