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Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Lon Nalder
(---.du.pinetel.com)
Date: March 16, 2006 11:16AM
I'm building a fly rod to use in salt water but need help on deciding which guides are best. I do know I want titanium to resists carrosion but I don't know how the Titan Nanolite ring compares to the Zirconium or SIC ring. I would appreciate any information or recommendations you guys can give me. Thanks alot! Re: Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Spencer Phipps
(---.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
Date: March 16, 2006 11:53AM
The Fuji titanium/SiC is still the best overall in materials and weight reduction. Whether you want and need the best is up to you. I have been told the Nanolite material is a high grade aluminum oxide ring. Re: Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Cliff Hall
(---.dialup.ufl.edu)
Date: March 16, 2006 12:19PM
The FUJI ALCONITE Guide ring is NOT Zirconium. It is a high-grade aluminum oxide (alumina) ceramic.
Zirconium is on many Batson ForeCast Line Guides, and on some other brands as well. American Tackle's TITAN Guides are solid TITANIUM Frames and NANOLITE Rings. NanoLite Rings are also a high-grade aluminum oxide (alumina) ceramic. AmTac does NOT make an SIC ring guide, in any frame at all. Period. In FUJI-ese, the term CONCEPT refers to several STYLES of guide frames. The frame metal may be titanium or stainless steel. The ring may be Silicon Carbide (SIC) or it may be Alconite. Usually the combination is Ti-SiC or Alc-SS. ... I'm not writing another primer on "A Guide to Guides", so that's all I'll say. ANY ceramic guide ring material is significantly harder than whatever you are going to have running thru the line guides (including small swivels). Superbraid lines, even loaded with Mississippi mud, won't groove an aluminum oxide ring. [Monel wire probably handles better on rollers; or the silicon nitride (SiN) or Silicon Carbide (SiC) ring guides. But the old Carbaloy metal rings are still popular for Monel wire among commercial fisherman.] The hardest ceramic guide ring is the SIC, hands down (VH ~ 2200). I have not seen Vickers Hardness for SiN. The aluminas are all of similar strength (VH ~ 1800 --> 1300): NL ~ Alc ~ Hardloy. The choice of frame metal and ring material all depends on your intended level of use (or abuse), ... and how much over-kill you want to pay for, ... IMO, ... -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA***** Titanium vs. stainless framed SIC guides John Richardson ... March 8, 2006 10:48PM [www.rodbuilding.org] Re: Alconite - Is it zirconium or premium aluminum oxide? Cliff Hall 03-08-06 ... 13:44 [www.rodbuilding.org] VICKER'S HARDNESS SCALE Values for Line Guide Ring Materials 2005 Stainless Steel (SS): 400 [B.E.] Chrome: 800-1000 [C.M.] Carbaloy: 1000 [B.E.] Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400 [B.E., C.M.] Alconite (Fuji): 1300-1500 [Fuji] NanoLite (Titan): 1800 [J.M.] Zirconia: 1000-1400 [M.G.] Zirconia PVD: 1600 [B.E.] SiC: 2200-2400 [B.E., C.M.] ALL of these materials are SUFFICIENTLY HARD to make good guide rings. ALL of the CERAMICS (Aluminum Oxide, Hardloy, Hialoy, Alconite, NanoLite, Zirconia, Silicon Nitride-SiN and Silicon Carbide-SiC) are HARDER than any metals (SS, Steel Files, Chrome) and HARDER than any SILICA (sand) or QUARTZ. Therefore, ANY of the CERAMICS make GREAT RING GUIDES. However Silicon Carbide is indisputably the hardest among those listed above. REFERENCES: [B.E.] = BATSON ENTERPRISES ForeCast Components 2005 Catalog, page 2. [C.M.] = Corrosion Management (May 2003), pp. 16-22. [J.M.] = Joe Meehan, American Tackle – on RBO Forum – [www.rodbuilding.org] [M.G.] = Mark Gibson, Material Sci./Eng. – on RBO Forum [www.rodbuilding.org] Re: Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Jay Lancaster
(12.174.137.---)
Date: March 16, 2006 01:37PM
Great info Cliff.
Jay Re: Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Cliff Hall
(---.dialup.ufl.edu)
Date: March 17, 2006 12:18AM
Hopefully, this consolidation of VH values will help us keep these comparisons straight. It can get confusing, and was even for me (and I wrote the darn thing!), until sorting it out in recent months & Posts.
While there is a hardness scale used for the metal frames (either Vickers or the Rockwell), there does not seem to be a scale to gauge the corrosion resistance (in absolute terms) of the guide frame's metal. Since there are fewer choices used in the guide frame metals, I guess that simplifies things considerably. There are just a few grades of Stainless Steel used (SS304 may be the most common), and just a couple of grades or alloys of titanium. And the titanium variety is generally regarded as superior to the SS without too much debate. But the Stainless Steel frames are certainly more than adequate for most rods. ... -Cliff Hall+++ Re: Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Mark B. Gonsalves
(---.hawaii.res.rr.com)
Date: March 17, 2006 10:11PM
Aloha. Is there any VHS value of the "Cermet" ring available? Mahalo. Re: Titan guides vs Concept guides
Posted by:
Cliff Hall
(---.dialup.ufl.edu)
Date: March 18, 2006 05:07AM
I have not run across any Vickers Hardness Scale values for Fuji’s CerMet guide rings. Perhaps the FUJI website has CerMet hardness values. The Angler’s Resource 2004-2005 Fuji Catalog does not list any VHS values for any of their ceramic guide rings. I’ll admit not having even noticed that the CerMets were not in my VH tables, because one look in my wallet says that CerMet guides are not in my immediate future anyway. Curious question, though. –Cliff Hall+++ FL-USA Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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