I'm building a 7 ft inshore casting rod. I'm using the Batson Rainshadow IP844 for the blank. I got a suggestion at the Charlotte show that I shouldn't consider anything but titanium guides. I just priced what I needed and I'm still trying to catch my breath.<g>

From a philosophical standpoint, if you were going to build a saltwater rod that you'd only use a handful of time a year in saltwater, would you go all out with titanium framed SIC guides? If so, why? Or would I do just as well with stainless frames? For that matter, would something like Fuji's Alconite be just as appropriate to use.

Thanks for the help and advice.


John

Who makes a titanium framed SIC guide? I'd be interested. I now use all Fugi SIC guides for my rods which are all saltwater, either the HNSG for lighter rods or LRSG for heavier rods.

Jim, Fuji makes solid titanium framed SIC guides.

John, if you need size 30 Fuji Titanium SICs, I can help you put some breath back by offering a very low cost source. E-mail me if you need size 30.

Blessings,
Mo

If its in the budget...Go Titanium! Aside from being corrosion proof, titanium frames have no plating, so scratches and nicks dont show as much. If they do, they can be smoothed over with a diamond file and Scotchbrite without worrying about plating. Titanium is much lighter than SS, making the rod more sensitive, improves blank recovery, and improves the balance of the rod. Titanium is also more flexable than SS (depending on the alloy), and can be a little more forgiving with being bent. Sure its pricey, but you only live once! LOL!

John,

I go very much with Scott, except in one area. Now Titanium may be more flexible than std SS but my experince with Fuji T NSG and T- SVSG has been the opposite. When setting the feet of the guides to fit the blank properly it is very much more difficult with the Titanium guides. The T-NSG patterns are a nightmare.
All std SS frames will corrode very quickly. I have Fuji SVSG sics on several salt water rods and they are rusty and this happens pretty soon.in the usual places like the toe of the guide where the finish cracks. TItaniums are the only guide material that I have found to be free of the rust problem. The rust will in practice have little effect. I have never had a guide break. My surf rods with SS guides are over 10 years old. The guides just look bad the rod fishes fine. If you have the cash then Titaniums are the way to go.

Mike O.

John,

The titanium frames are not necessary if you routinely wash down your gear after fishing. I fish saltwater along the Texas coast and have found that most guides have to be replaced from accidents, not rust or corrosion. Most of my rods now have Fuji Alconites with black frames....most of these have lasted several years and show minimal wear.....but I'm a maintenance freak.

Bret

The Titan titaniums from American Tackle are a fraction of the xost!!


Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike, I keep hearing that about the cost difference but when I look them up, it seems that the fraction is about 4/5 (84 percent by my caculation). In other words $3.67 for a size 6 Titan single foot fly style versus $4.35 for the Fuji TSGs in size 6. Yes, that's a savings but not that much. Am I missing anything?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2006 09:31AM by Steve Kartalia.

John,
Another option that you might want to consider is the inexpensive black framed guides offered by a couple of suppliers. They are powder coated and I have used the Forecast versions of them on a lot of rods that are used in salt water without any rust problems. The powder coating basically coats the guide frame with a plastic coating that is a lot tougher than paint and protects the frame from rust. They are very inexpensive with aluminum oxide inserts, a little more expensive with zirconium inserts.

Steve, You're right on the fly guides but on the reg SF'a a TYSG 12 ia $10.96 and a Titan NIA-12 is $5.23

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Gotcha Mike, I can see why the spinning rod builders would be pretty excited about those price differences.

John, you specifically asked: "if you were going to build a saltwater rod that you'd only use a handful of time a year in saltwater, would you go all out with titanium framed SIC guides? If so, why? Or would I do just as well with stainless frames? For that matter, would something like Fuji's Alconite be just as appropriate to use. "

It depends on how much money you can afford to spend on components. If you are catchign your breathe after seeing the prices, then DEFINATELY NOT. I haev a set of Chrome Alconites I've been using as a test, never washed the rod, and I fish it about 30 times a year. The guides are showing signs of corrosion and use, but they still look good amd are totally useful and will be for years to come. Had I washed the rod once or twice, I'm sure tehy guides would stilllook great.

SIC - IMo, a total waste, unless you have teh money and enjoy telling peopel you have SIC guides. Yes they are slicker, but in actual use 90% of teh fishing situations it really doesn't matter. The 10% where it makes sense to use them is where you have long fights with hard running fish pulling a lot of drag off the reel. Still, I think Alconites would work just fine. Alco's & SIC have teh same steel used in teh frame, so the better value imo is the Alco's.

I wish they made Titanium framed Alconites.

does Fugi make a HNSG or LRSG size titanium guide? The only ones I'm aware of are too small for tuna fishing.

The FUJI Silicon Carbide Rings (SiC) with Titanium frames (Ti) are completely ANALOGOUS in DIMENSIONS to the Alconite Rings with the Stainless frames. The only difference is the ring ceramic and the frame metal. And the performance, but not in direct proportion to the higher price of the SiC-Ti over the Alconite-SS.

Y-frame, Two-Leg, Single-foot (Spinning): TYSG = BYAG = CYAG
Tri-Leg, Double-foot frame (Casting): TLNSG = BLNAG = CLNAG
Two-Leg, Single-foot frame (Low-frame): TUNSG = BUNAG = CUNAG
One-Leg, Single-foot frame (FLY): TLSG = BLAG = CLAG

IMO, any ceramic ring in a stainless steel frame will give good service, even in saltwater, IF the rod is rinsed in freshwater at the end of each day. For idle storage over 24 hours, rinse in freshwater first, then wash, soap & scrub, rinsing with freshwater prior to storage DRY. ...

If that's too much hassle for you, you need Titanium if you want to keep the rod looking pristine. ... And even then, with enough drying of saltwater and salt crystal formation all over the frame and around the guide ring, anything but gold or platinum would corrode. ...

I have seen the Titanium alloys (used in ultracentrifugation rotors that spin at 50,000 RPMs and generate 100,000 G-forces that cost $5,000+ each) get signs of corrosion from careless maintainence. I can't say how that Ti alloy compares to the Titaniums used for guide frames, but it bears mentioning, IMO.

-Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****

I've built about 20 saltwater rods for heavy striped bass trolling and tuna chunking/trolling using Fuji titanium SIC TNSG 16's and/or 12's over the last few years. The trolling rods often drag 16 oz of lead AND heavy umbrella rigs for hundreds of hours a year, and the tuna rods have taken yellowfin tuna up to 120 lbs. These are on very powerful rods, and even a 50 lb tuna is an unbelievably strong fish. Not one guide has failed. I think most builders underestimate the strength of even the smallest of guides. Yes, these guides are very expensive- but so are rollers. I think it's false economy to save money through buying inexpensive guides. Over time, you (or the buyer) are likely to incur additional costs when the cheaper guides break or rust.

Unfortunately, most guys I build for insist on roller guides because of bad experiences with the cheap ring guides used on mass produced offshore rods.

Forecast also make a " polished " framed guide. No plating to my thinking less problems in salt.
And since you are not going to use it that often you can wax it

Good point, Mike Naylor. Reminds me of the guy who was determined to save some money on his medical expenses. He went back to the same brain surgeon who had botched the first operation because he offerred a discount for repeat customers.

I've gotten some very good advice and much to mull over. If I seemed a little bit shocked at the price of the components, it was because the last rods I've built were fly rods. Even the best snake guides are not very costly. But then again, a fly rod built for small streams in Western North Carolina isn't intended to fight very large powerful fish or deal with the corrosive conditions found at the coast.

John

I'm sympathetic, John, and did not mean to compare you to the guy shopping for brain surgery. With fly rods, you can spend $90 on a reel seat and $5 on the guides and get a "top-end" rod. With other rods, just flip the prices to get the same "top-end" rod. It's kind of funny really, since the $90 dollar reel seats are often functionally deficient whereas you will never regret putting money into really good guides and it's hard to beat a $5 Fuji for holding your reel.

I guess what caught me off guard was that the components cost approximately twice as much as the Batson Rainshadow blank. I did get the blank at a great price down in Charlotte.

-john