Bill, After following the thread I do recall reading the article. I didn't expect people to rush off and gather data which is an overwhelming task for any individual. Let the manufacturers do their job which is what we need them to do for our hard earned dollars. Let's see if any are willing to really step to the plate. More technical information and less marketing hype. We'll decide the
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Cabela's had a blank they advertised as an 8 foot 5 weight traditional 2. I recently built one but it's no 5 weight. The rod came to life with an 8 weight bass bug taper and casts a 7 weight with authority and control. The rod has a butt dia of .371 and a tip of 4/64 I use this rod for big trout fishing and can comfortably cast all day up to my own limits. Prepare for 70 foot plus casts with
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Shouldn't we place the weight measurement of the guides on the shoulders of the manufacturers. They should be responsible for providing technical data to make our jobs easier and to compete fairly with the other suppliers. If weight is measured it should be done and published by them to assure we can properly choose the correct components for our customer's use. If weight is an issue grains are
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Brandon, The Sage is an excellent choice but rather pricey. If you wish an alternative try a spinning rod blank but the options will also be slim at that length and line weight 7'6" IM6 Target Butt Dia .200 7'6" IM7 Target Butt Dia .190 Possible options 7' IM6 Target Butt Dia .175 7" IM7 Target Butt Dia .165 Tip dia 4/64 Max , 3/64 or 3.5/64 preferred Search
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Gary, The 5 weight TCR is a very fast rod and also has a high swing weight. Sage normally recommends 10 guides wirh spacing from their website. I propose a different strategy though 9 guides from tip top (10 aren't required for a rod this stiff) #2 single foot titanium, #2 single foot titanium, #2 single foot titanium, #3 single foot H&H, #3 single foot H&H, #4 single foot H&H,
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Scott, I recently built what I thought was an 8 foot 5 weight from a Cabela's Traditional II blank. Have used their blanks for 20 years and wanted to evaluate the new tapers. The rod I built was not capable of delivering a 5 weight but to my surprise was able to cast 80+ feet of 8 weight bass bug taper. It also does a very nice job with a WF 7. I don't know if they plan to fix this problem, b
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David, For a 5 foot 2 weight 1st guide @ 3.6" Recoil #1 single foot titanium 2nd guide @ 8.0" Recoil #1 single foot titanium 3rd guide @ 13.6" #2 H&H chrome single foot 4th guide @ 20.5" #2 H&H chrome single foot 5th guide @ 29.0" #3 H&H chrome single foot 6th guide @ 39.6" #8 stripper guide double foot Assuming light tippets 7x or smaller Shou
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Rob, They certainly do. Both single and double foot guides vibrate under load. The factory rep equated it to the vibration caused when a bow is pulled across the strings of a violin. (not quite that pleasant though). The vibration is loudest when retreiving a fish under a tight line. Can also happen on double-haul when the line is pulled, if you put a pretty good bend in the rod. Have tried wa
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Denis, If you would like to analyze mass effects on PMI common tape can be substituted and placed on the blank in the predetermined positions Tape length can be adjusted to simulate titanium or steel and the effects observered by a simple waggle in a matter of minutes. Positions can be easily modified in a matter of minutes and material can be analyzed even quicker by adding or removing tape len
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Bob, Like I said "good test" My approach has always centered on castability and the comfort and "feel" of the angler. Dynamic loads being the major component. That said the playing of the fish was not placed as a high priority. You however are tasked with playing the fish as the major priority. Can the two be combined ? I strongly believe they can and achieve a rod that i
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Bob, Pretty much irrelevant was taken with offense. Water under the bridge. I assume my preliminary was pretty close or you wouldn't request more. I don't wish to share my equations. The data I've already posted is capable of recreating them if you choose. I still require a titanium tip top if anyone knows where to find one.
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Bob, Never tried a big game rod but let's see if the science works that far up. Would run a 10 guide stategy on this rod length and action Locations #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #8 #9 #10 117.0 112.5 107.4 101.7 95.2 87.9 79.6 70.3 59.7 47.8 34.3 From Tip 0.0 4.5 9.6 15.3 21.8 29.1 37.4 46.7 57.3 69.2 82.7 Fuji big game tip top, Recoil #3 heavy titanium double foot fly for t
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Bill Pardon my poetics but the blank prior to any of our undertakings is a work of art. Light,simple,fast,sensitive,able to slice thru the air with almost no effort. A perfect mechanism on it's own. Our goal should be to work with it to retain it's most pure form. We need to hang hardware on it to make it a fishing rod and all these components add mass like a march with a 60 lb pack. We try to d
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Denis, Sorry. The term drag is describing the aerodynamic frictional aspect and is only approximate. Are the rest of the terms acceptable. I have the equations in spreadsheet format that will not be released. Your brilliant dissertation I felt needed some quantifiable data.
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Here are some facts. The waggle of a rod is different before and after installing components. Prior to the hardware installation the blank is a completely different animal then after adding just the tip-top. That insignificant weight componet added an enormous change to the nature of the blank. Guide installation adds even more insignificant weight until the blank action is no longer even rec
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Jim, We have a lot in common. I hope to be a retired mechanical designer in 7 or 8 years. I also never obtained a degree while working in tool and die shops. I've no ax to grind even if it appears that way and have been told often to work on my "communication skills"( a personal shortcoming ). I get to the point and accomplish tasks. I lack the patience to sit on my hands and wait. T
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Denis, Thanks for the warning however I already started the firewoks display and recieved tonge-lashing. May have hurt some feelings. Please join on the new thread though I appreciate the support and maybe we can convert a couple. Personally my email address is jandgmoore1122@yahoo.co

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Steve, Yes, I have held and cast a rod with Micro's. That was initially what led me to search for lighter guides for my fly rods. I use #2 single foot titanium for rods 5 weight under and #2 titanium double foot for rods to 8 Weight. For spinning and casting rods I've stuck with Titan fly rod guides to reduce weight at the tip of the rod. Perhaps Micro's would work here and reduce the weight fu
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Bill, The mass reduction of the guides causes less oscillation of the blank. This in turn reduces contact with the guides. The blank is oscillating at a higer frequency with less amplitude. Amplitude is the killer. This causes contact with the guides which must guide the line to the new moving target. Any contact with the guides creates friction and more oscillation. Try reducing the number of
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James, This theory isn't science. Air boundry layers work against solid objects not objects that are porous enough to absorb air. Braided lines have less memory from being wrapped around the spool, thinner mono also casts further try 2 lb test but does not have this trapped air film.
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Tom, Back off you're out of you're league. The concept of the rod being straight is foolish to promote. The fastest rod I own 7.8 ERN and 78 degrees AA clamped in a vice takes 15-20 seconds to stop oscillating after a small deflection. I can effectively stop only a very small percent of that. Maybe I've got the palsy. But I've observed the ripples going down the fly line. My praise though if
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Did not say they didn't work. Only stated they could have been greatly improved upon thru the addition of lighter materials This would have enabled a larger diameter guide while still reducing net weight. Sooo defensive. Lighten up and I'll tell you how to get even more.
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Forgive me for preaching PMI or polar moment if inertia is the resistance of an object to acceleration about an axis. Force = Mass times Acceleration is the calculation as to how much energy need be applied to change the velocity of an object in a straight line. Rotation of an object must be evaluated differently as all the components on the spoke of a wheel are moving the same number of degees
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Denis, PMI or Polar Moment of Inertia is the resistance of an object to acceleration about an axis. This increases with linear weight and distance from the axis center squared. The largest component in this case is the distance from the axis. On a 9 foot fly rod if all guides were the same size and the stripper is 31.6 inches from the butt. The tip top requires 11.7 times more energy to accelera
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Denis, Rod guides are a necessary evil. They are required to distribute the load for playing the fish. They are, however parasitic in nature requiring the rod to expend energy for their dynamic movement. Ever waggle a blank prior to wrapping the guides and go "too stiff" .After guides are placed the tip may feel "too soft". This is due to the PMI of the guides. It has nothing
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Denis, Thank you. Open minds are hard to find around here. Whoever said that the best of anything is easy to quantify. Follow these simple steps and life is good. I don't need to look at the thermometer to tell me if I feel hot or cold. I accept the fact and put on a heavier shirt even if someone else says it's fine. I have stumbled onto some quantifiable results dealing with PMI that others
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Tom, Let me start by explaining the reason for visiting this site and the CCS system to begin with. Two weeks ago I was instructed by my customer to build a 9 Foot 4 Weight with a blank that he provided. Being unfamilar with the blank I proceeded to their web site for blank specs. This claimed the blank was indeed a 9 Foot 4 Weight IM6 with a fast action. Additional specs on butt, tip and blank
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Precisely . This is the reason for the lengthy pursuit of the definition. Why do two manufactures rods measure the same in static deflection yet one fatigues your arm after half an hour while the other can be cast effectively all day. The answer is not subjective but science.
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Sorry but my 40 years of mechanical engineering has taught me that expressed feelings on a subject may in fact have a valid scientific basis even if the individuals responding do not have a scientific vocabulary. The term "Sweet" was the first word from 3 individuals after casting one rod the fourth just asked "How much ?". There was no fifth. I didn't ask them to explain I ju
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I beg to differ with Dr Hanneman's assumption that rod characteristics can be described by static measurements alone. Spring rate and deflection angle have been engineering terms for a long time but these are not the terms used to measure dynamic response. Terms such as feels good, casts well, lot's of power, Smooth and Sweet are all terms used to describe a rod's dynamic behaviour not static mea
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