Now we will need a wind resistance test to see how much they slow recovery speed. Just kidding, but couldn't resist. Devil made me do it. Clearly a case of different strokes for different folks, and I applaud "going for it."
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Gary, give the Forhan or some variation of it a try, I doubt if it costs me 20 seconds a guide. Probably less. I think it's worth while on KT's, pretty small narrow foot. I can't imagine weaving in and out of the legs.
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How thick are the feet? What sizes available? Or just a marketing test? I think they are pretty ugly and am not interested. One thing I like about Fuji micros is how unobtrusive they are, and the larger size KLH's are pretty stylish, IMO.
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Ryan, I would pretest any application of Permagloss over anything other than the bare blank and thread.
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One does not have to exactly do the Forhan wrap to do a wrap that helps stabilize the guide from pulling out. I do locking wraps on all single foot guides, but not exactly the Forhan. Still seems to work just fine. I have no trouble with K series guides.
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Anyone who doubts my numbers and conclusions is free to run the tests themselves. I'm not going to debate. By the way, I've never tested a torzite guide.
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As Aleks pointed out, there are a lot of rod variables that most likely affect TNF (and everything else). Yes, it is not all about modulus. However, keep in mind that generally the blanks/rods that manufacturers describe as high modulus and more sensitive have very high TNF's compared to similar rods described as RX6 or 7.
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Another reason that TNF is valuable is that it gives one confidence that his dollars for premium blanks are being well spent. And now and then a lower priced gem will be found. By gem I mean an unusually high TNF for the price point. it happens. Based on my testing premium blanks have higher TNF's and therefore higher recovery speeds than the cheaper blanks. You can see if you're getting wha
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To repeat, the selection of rods was only a tool in the discussion of the predictive ability of the lever arm argument. . There was no intent to imply the importance of sensitivity to any technique or type of rod. I find it interesting that there are so many who profess to have no interest, that this all is irrelevant and has no value, but in less than two weeks this string of posts has been
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TNF is useful for the exact reason Gary asked about. Does it make sense to use expensive titanium guides close to the butt of the rod if they don't affect the speed of recovery from deflection? Most people believe that rods with higher recovery speeds feel crisper, cleaner. Thread tension has no effect on TNF. The amount of thread (long wraps) could if taken to extremes probably due to the
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Ray, I know damping is what is causing the vibration of the blank to stop. What I don't know is what causes some blanks to damp out faster than others. I believe it, like sensitivity, is likely a combination of factors, blank geometry, mass near the tip, material characteristics, etc. The equation that best matches what we are talking about, IMO, is the equation for the natural frequency
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Nope. But I've always shaken it. I thought this type CP had solids in suspension that had to be mixed up to get effectiveness. I just finished a rod with it, shook it, Fuji cobalt thread, and it looks great.
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"The more oscillations, the stiffer the rod will be, and the more quickly it will return to rest (rebound), which enables certain performance benefits." It is related not only to stiffness, but also to weight. The stiffness is in the numerator of the equation for natural frequency, and weight is in the denominator, so the heavier, the slower. It's about stiffness to weight ratio.
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The only way we will know is by trying it. I think I have an old glass fly rod of about 4 power, will try it vs a modern 7 foot hi mod graphite. Probably in the spring, now.
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Based on my experience testing TNF on a good number of rods of various powers and action, it depends. . . Yes on one rod I saw a significant change in TNF from bare blank to SS tiptop to Arowana tiptop (titanium). I believe it was a pretty fast action. Yes on many rods I can see the difference between SS and titanium size 4 runners. I think Mike Ballard is right on the area out on the b
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The fly rod example was only used as a tool in the discussion. There was no intent to state that sensitivity is or is not important to fly fishing. Or baitcasting cranks, or spinnerbaits, or paddletails or anything else. If you like it better, consider a 9 foot ERN 3 AA 60 glass SPINNING rod vs a 7 foot high modulus graphite ERN 17, AA 77.
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Feeling larger and detecting a tap of a fish bite by feel are not likely the same thing, may or may not correlate. One is static, sustained, and the other is dynamic, instantaneous, not sustained. If tip deflection were to be considered, then the fly would likely be more sensitive, but this whole discussion has been taken with the detection of the bite being felt, not seen. That's certainly the
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Using the lever arm method Is a glass 9 foot 3 weight fly rod more sensitive than a 7 foot high modulus graphite spin rod with ERN 17 and AA 77?
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Ernie, forget it. Go on to other things.
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Those who doubt the validity of the lever arm argument for sensitivity without having tried it need to try it. And they need to remember that Tom K has stated that the rods used in the comparison don't have to be identical except for length; the difference felt is significant. I don't doubt that it is a significant subjective test. It is not an unproven theory; it is scientifically correct tha
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Very nice, informative, post, David. I'm very glad you did it. I have found your observations, references, and comments interesting and valuable. I certainly have learned from them.
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"Michael, is it possible ? " As I stated before: "The problem with trying to test for this is to get two rods of similar characteristics but different lengths. And even after that, more samples would add confidence in the conclusion. One test is usually not considered the final answer." To run an experiment on the influence of length to feel a bite you would do the best y
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Peter, lack of stretch equates to transmission of the input to the rod from the disturbance of the lure. Whether you call it a vibration or a thump or something else, braid will transmit it better than mono or FC, by a bunch. David, if you want to see the effect of ONE variable on a system, you have to keep all other variables constant and equal. It's fundamental to the design of experiment
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If one is looking for a good way to finish the open end of the blank at a butt knob or butt of a full grip, another way is to buy rubber bumpers at an auto parts store. There are some that have a barb which accepts gel epoxy nicely and about a 3/4 inch flat end on the outside. Very unobtrusive, protective of the butt, a soft hit when the rod is placed anywhere butt down. I sand the barb surfac
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It is with great trepidation that I get back into this, but I think that the "lever arm" argument is being mis-applied/mis-interpreted. As I understand it, with blanks/rods of similar characteristics, but of different lengths, the lever arm argument states that the longer will be the more sensitive. The lever arm argument is not that the longer rod will ALWAYS be more sensitive.
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We don't all build for the "average" angler. I know I don't. Ernie, if you believe this whole subject is so ridiculous and insignificant, why don't you simply ignore it?
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". . . more significant if it in fact would make some significant difference to the average angler. Is there anyone out there who thinks that this is so?' Yes.
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"The rods will have the same components on them so it will be a great comparison between an X ray blank, and an RX10 blank. I'm looking forward to comparing the two." And it would be nice then to compare subjective conclusions with TNF data.
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I have looked for an Apple app on line and have found nothing that looks like it will give sound level vs time in milliseconds. If one were to buy a device I'd recommend a tablet to get the larger screen size. I know an Amazon Kindle works and any Android tablet should. There are tablets on Amazon for as little as $60.
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Good point, Tom. Since we all don't have the same opinions on what makes good performance it is unlikely that we all will have the same solutions or designs. Trying it out and doing it the way one likes it makes sense.
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