Hello All - This is my first post, as well as my first endeavor in rod building. I just pulled the trigger on orders to NFC and The Rod House to get all of the components for my first 3 rods. The blanks I chose were the (1) NFC SB-722 and (2) NFC SB-724. I bought two different blanks in an attempt to hit a perfect match on the NRX 852s. The NFC $75 dollar deal on X-ray blanks was tempting enough to get a second SB-724 since I know I can find a use for it down the road.

My first question is, does anyone have any experience with a Loomis NRX+ 852s JWS rod and would share their CCS numbers? It'll be a few weeks before I see these rods, so if I made a mistake Id like to know now vs later. I will say, I called NFC and the gentlemen I spoke to gave me some confidence that I was heading down the right path.

Secondly, if I wanted to trim an inch or two off of these blanks, would that be at any major expense? Just wondering if I would be throwing off the action or incurring some other penalty I have yet to learn about.

Lastly, below are my recipes. Id appreciate any feedback on these. Again, my rod building knowledge goes as far as spending the last 48 hours discussing rod builds with a bassin buddy of mine (thanks Chris!) and reading threads on this forum. Guide placement is my next endeavor...I plan to use the Fuji GPS app to get a start on this unless someone stops me lol

Appreciate everyone's feedback on this site. For a guy wanting to get into this hobby, this site is the go-to source from what I've found thus far.

-Brent



Rod Recipes: Reel being used on all 3 rods is a Shimano Vanford 2500 w/10lb braid w/10lb fluro leader

Rod #1
Blank: SB-722
Guides: Fuji Titanium-Torzite KL(16H-8H-6M-5.5L) to 4 KT-4.5 runners and a KG-4.5 Tip top. (this was following the Fuji KR System Guide with consideration to in-leaders)
Reel Seat: Fuji VSS Standard w/BGK485RC Hidden Thread Hood
Grips: Fuji Cork grip w/rubberized cork for VSS and a matching Fuji butt grip

Rod #2
Blank: SB-724
Guides: Fuji Titanium-Torzite KL(16H-8H-6M-5.5L) to 4 KT-4.5 runners and a KG-4.5 Tip top.(this was following the Fuji KR System Guide with consideration to in-leaders)
Reel Seat: Fuji VSS Standard w/BGK485RC Hidden Thread Hood
Grips: Fuji Cork grip w/rubberized cork for VSS and a matching Fuji butt grip

Rod #3
Blank: SB-724
Guides: Fuji Titanium-Torzite KL(20H-10H-7M-6L) to 4 KT-5 runners and a KG-5 Tip top.(this was following the Fuji KR System Guide with consideration to in-leaders)
Reel Seat: Fuji VSS Standard w/BGK485RC Hidden Thread Hood
Grips: Fuji Cork grip w/rubberized cork for VSS and a matching Fuji butt grip



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2023 06:41PM by Brent Willey.

If you have access to an 852 JWR, you can do the CCS tests yourself. They don't take an extravagant set up to do, and as the name says, can be done with pennies. If you're looking for IP in grams, just multiply the number of pennies by 2.5.

I'm curious as to what you'll be using the rod you build on the SB 724, for? The reason I ask is, I see the 852 JWR is rated 1/8 - 3/8 with an extra fast action. I'm in the process of building on an SB724 as we speak. CCS numbers I got for my blank are IP 513 grams. AA, 71. For me those numbers match what the web site has listed for the blank. 1/4 - 5/8 oz and a fast action.

I'd call the SB 724 a tube jig, shaky head, light Texas rig rod. 1/4, maybe 5/16 weight plus the bait. Baits like a 3.5: tube, 4 - 6" shaky head worms, and Texas rig baits like Baby Brush Hogs, and 4" power worms. Stuff like that. At least that's what I'll be using my rod for.

Your "rod recipe" Should include the exact reel you will be using. Spinning rod guide trains, the Fuji KR System uses, are based on the reel and the angle from the spool. The rod is built to a specific reel. You can average and center the guides on that average for a more generic guide train (it will work) but you are going to get the best performance out of the same reel, guide train settings. I do like the direction you are heading though, you are getting it. On the first group I would cut out the 6M, it is "rapid reduction" and not cone of flight and I would do 4s with a 4.5 tip top. If that is for a very small spinning reel like a true 2000. If it has a larger spool diameter I would go with a 20mm for the butt guide. Actually I would do a 20mm on that butt guide and the 8mm followed by the 5.5 then 4s for the running train, for that blank. The same thing on the next two builds, you don't need that in between guide size. Use the same setup I suggested and adjust for the angle of the spool on that specific reel.
[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2023 06:01PM by Lance Schreckenbach.

David - I wish I owned one already, but I guess that's how I ended up in this new hobby predicament! lol I live near herring lakes, and during alot of the year you can get offshore and target suspended fish with weightless (or slightly weighted) soft jerkbaits (5/16-3/8oz). So that's how I plan to use this rod, and its no secret that a lot of the successful anglers in my area also fish their weightless flukes (with an NRX852). I just never could justify 650 for a spinning rod that I knew I could build for less than half that price. I do plan to setup a CCS area in my workshop and create my own personal database for rods I can get my hands on. Since I have 2 of these, I will likely utilize the second one just as you mentioned T-rig/shaky head rod.

Lance - Good advice on the recipe outline. I'll add the line/reel size I plan to use (Shimano Vanford 2500/10lb braid w/10lb fluro leader). I will consider your recommendations after I get a chance to digest where I went astray. I have to admit, I leaned very heavily on the fuji KR guidelines ( [www.fujitackle.eu] ) which stated that the "in-leader" setups should consider the added 6M/5.5L vs going straight to a KT5.5M. Not sure what you think about this Fuji kr guide, but I haven't seen many posts on it, and I'm interested in an experienced builders thoughts. This was one of the most helpful docs Ive found thus far, so hopefully its not all @#$%&.

Brent, your reason for taking up rod building pretty much matches mine exactly. Spend $650 on a rod I could build for a little more than half the price? And I can build it better than the factories build them? Sign me up !!!

As far as what you outlined using your SB 724 rod for, I don't do that kind of fishing, but I think its power will work out quite nicely. One thing I would suggest you do, is to wait until you have the blanks in hand before you order your tip tops. The tip for the SB724 is listed at 4.5. My blank needed a 5/64ths tube to fit. And that was for the OG finish X ray blank that I sanded the ridges off.

I also wondered about the 4 guide reduction train. I have been seeing that as a topic on at least one currently running thread. Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about spinning rod guide trains. I've always just inputted the numbers in the KR software and just used what it spit out, and it's always been just a 3 guide reduction train. I use fluorocarbon line as the main line on my spinning rods, and the rods cast amazingly with just the 3 guide reduction train. I use 2500 or 3000 series Shimano reels with a KL-H 20, KL-H 10, and a 5.5M as the reduction train.

One of my reels is a 2500 Vanford. Awesome reel !!!

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brent, your reason for taking up rod building
> pretty much matches mine exactly. Spend $650 on a
> rod I could build for a little more than half the
> price? And I can build it better than the
> factories build them? Sign me up !!!
>
> As far as what you outlined using your SB 724 rod
> for, I don't do that kind of fishing, but I think
> its power will work out quite nicely. One thing I
> would suggest you do, is to wait until you have
> the blanks in hand before you order your tip tops.
> The tip for the SB724 is listed at 4.5. My blank
> needed a 5/64ths tube to fit. And that was for
> the OG finish X ray blank that I sanded the ridges
> off.
>
> I also wondered about the 4 guide reduction train.
> I have been seeing that as a topic on at least one
> currently running thread. Admittedly, I don't know
> a whole lot about spinning rod guide trains. I've
> always just inputted the numbers in the KR
> software and just used what it spit out, and it's
> always been just a 3 guide reduction train. I use
> fluorocarbon line as the main line on my spinning
> rods, and the rods cast amazingly with just the 3
> guide reduction train. I use 2500 or 3000 series
> Shimano reels with a KL-H 20, KL-H 10, and a 5.5M
> as the reduction train.
>
> One of my reels is a 2500 Vanford. Awesome reel
> !!!

Thanks David, I love the vanfords! Im on my 5th one! lol

Im glad to hear you feel like the 724 will perform as I intended. I look forward to getting it built up. Unfortunately, I did already buy guides/tips...but if I need to buy a few more guides I'll just have some leftover for another build, right? lol Where would I go about getting the tubing you speak of for the tip top? Seems like this might be a good item to have around if I plan on building a few rods.

For the reduction train, what I might do is try it both ways. One with the 20-10-5.5 as you mentioned, and one as described in the KR Concept guide "3 choking guides + high profile belly guide" and see if I notice any major differences. Just need to purchase a few more guides to try it.

-Brent

Brent, the tube I was speaking of for the tip top, is the actual tube of the tip top itself. A 5/64 ID, versus the 4.5/64 ID the web site has listed.

As far as the Vanfords, you either replaced all your spinning reels with Vanford's, or you use a lot more spinning rods than I do. lol My other spinning reels are a 3000 series Saros, which is what the Ultegra replaced. A 3000 series Ultegra, and an older 3000 series Sahara.

Oh, and a 2500 Sedona that I have on what was expected to be a really sweet drop shot rod that I built. Which I now only use as a really sweet pan fish rod. lol Actually, the failure of that rod as a drop shot rod is what got me into using CCS numbers as a way to choose rod blanks for my builds. But even with knowing the CCS numbers for a blank I have, or have built on, I am trying to be more careful in offering an opinion on a blank, because what I like in rod power and action, may not be what others like.

I'm a I'd rather have the power and not need it, than need it and not have it, kind of guy

Oh, and I don't know how you plan on holding your guides on when you place them and when you do your two line static load to place your running guides, but I use tubing that Mud Hole offers. It comes in 4 different sizes and I believe in 3' lengths. I love it because I can cut it to any width I like, and it makes sliding the guides along the blank during static load placement, a breeze. I've built probably 20 rods since starting to use it, and I still have pretty much half of each size left. Way better than tape IMO.

NRX 852s JWR CCS: 580g and 77 degrees

David- Thanks for the clarification. Didn’t know the tip was sized in terms of 64ths, learned something. I’ll wait for the blanks to arrive before I order the 5 tip tops, but thanks for the heads up. I figure having multiple sizes around will come in handy. For the guide bands, I will definitely try the mudhole option. I haven’t gotten that far yet, but what you mention seems to make sense for the static load test. I should have been more clear on my vanford comment, I haven’t worn any out, just purchased 5 to have in different rods. Can’t have too many, right?

Peter- I really appreciate you posting those CCS numbers. You’ve cost me another order to NFC lol. I bought the MB 724-1 which seems to be a lot closer to those numbers without the fast tip. For what I like, I think a slower tip will help with casting these weightless flukes. Thanks again!

Brent, if you don't have digital calipers, you'd be smart to get one. They allow you to measure anything you'll need to measure in basic rod building, like the size of blank tips, blank diameters at various places on the blank if you're planning on using a reel seat that needs fitted to the blank, etc .....

As far as the Vanfords...... no, I guess you can't have too many sweet reels. lol

I read Peter's posting of the CCS numbers for the NRX 852 JWR last night and instantly thought ... oh man, Brent may want to order a different blank. I also thought that considering the 852 is a 2 power rod, that an IP of 580 grams isn't what I would consider a 2 power rod. Especially in a spinning rod. Then I thought, well ..... it is a JWR so that's going to be more like an MB blank, than an SB blank. Still what I would consider a high number for a 2 power blank. I would trust Peter's numbers though.

As far as the MB 724 X ray, I have one of those sitting here at the house as well, I have a friend and fellow tournament competitor that wants me to build him a tube jig spinning rod to replace a rod that I had built him on an MB 704 IM blank. He was very happy with it, but he broke it. Got it caught under a tie off cleat on his boat. As I don't use spinning rods all that much, I let him use one of my spinning rods that I built on an RX10 ETEC72M blank. Long story short, he wants me to build him a rod comparable to that rod, so I picked up an MB 724 to make the build a little more cost friendly for him. The two blanks have almost identical CCS numbers. It's hard to say which is the more sensitive blank. The RX 10s are crazy good.

Anyhow, the CCS numbers I got for my MB724 blank .... IP 568 grams, AA 75, are right there with the numbers Peter posted for the 852 JWR. Even with out knowing their CCS numbers, one could definitely tell the power difference between the SB 724 and the MB 724. I have two builds going right now, one on the SB724 X ray, and one on an MB733 X ray. CCs numbers are virtually identical to MB724, but ...... the MB733 blank dimensions are quite a bit different than those listed for it. I suspect that is the reason the powers are so close.

You mention the numbers of the MB724 being closer to the JWR and they are. Probably not much difference in how fast of a tip the two blanks have. One thing with CCS numbers that you may have noticed if you've been looking at the Rodbuilding.org CCS data base, is that there seems to be some pretty wide variances in what different members have gotten for the same blank. That could be variances in testing procedure, but it could also be, and I would think it could definitely be, variances in the dimensions of the blanks being tested. With rod blanks being tubes, if you change the diameter and wall thickness of the tube, it affects the strength of that tube. Which would result in different CCS numbers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2023 08:42AM by David Baylor.

My opinion is that if you are looking for a JWR NRX replacement Point Blank is the place to be. I've built several NFC xray spinning and casting rods and none has that NRX feel. Light but not too light tip into a more parabolic bend for fighting fish. Also understand that Gary Loomis had sold G. Loomis before the NRX was made. He may have played a part, but it is/was really a Shimano blank. My MB733 xray is significantly less powerful and slower than my 852s. For something like a fluke or senko I prefer an extra fast tip, but I know opinions vary. If I were to build a fluke specific rod I would build on a Point Blank 7' or 7'3" MLF blank. Also curious about the Rod Forge medium extra sensitive blank. Had the Rodgeeks version which had a great action but too heavy. Sorry, I know I have gotten off the topic of NFC.

Peter, the two MB733 X rays i received recently are both more powerful than what I was expecting them to be. As I mentioned above, the dimension of the two MB733 blanks I have are quite a bit different from what is posted for the blank on the NFC web site. The tip is only a half size larger than listed, which isn't all that uncommon from what I've experienced with my NFC blanks, but the butt diameter is .091" larger.

I communicated that to NFC, and the response was, that unlike other manufacturers, NFC does not grind their blanks to match specific dimensions. That variances in the prepreg can and will result in differences in blank diameters and blank weights. Change the diameter and wall thickness of a tube, you change the properties of that tube. So my guess would be that the MB733 blank you have, has different dimensions than the blanks I have.

The MB724 blank I posted CCS numbers for, has dimensions that are almost spot on to what is posted on the NFC web site.

And I don't see anything being wrong with going off topic of NFC. and recommending a different manufacturers blank. I'd recommend the RX10 blank I mentioned building on ahead of an X ray. I've only built and fished 2 rods built on X ray blanks, Both of those blanks being SJ736's. I absolutely love those rods, they're extremely sensitive, and perform a lot of different techniques extremely well. But there is something about that spinning rod I built on the RX 10 blank that is ............ different. It is crazy good.

I gotta say though.... these MB733 blanks I have, feel extremely good. A nice responsive tip that isn't overly soft, and great backbone. I'm excited to fish the one I'm building on now, and I am building it using one of the XO skeleton spinning grips, so IMO it's going to be a sweet looking rod. I've got the guides on, but haven't put finish on them yet. As it sits now, it weighs 3.45 oz.

Brent-
Your recipes are perfect for what you intend to do, stick to it. Don’t let suggestions complicate the process by adding alternatives to what has already been throughly tested. From reading your post it shows you’ve done your homework, the high belly guide is recommended if you intend to use a long leader where the connection knot passes through the guides. When I finally implement this layout I was very impressed on how far I was casting a very light lure with minimal effort. Stick to your plan, you won’t regret it!

Checked the MB733 just to be sure. 470 grams and 72 degrees. Can't get tip and butt since it is built. Haven't fallen in love with it for bottom contact, but does really well with 4" Keitech Easy Shiner on a 3/16 to 1/4 oz jig head.

Peter Yawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Checked the MB733 just to be sure. 470 grams and
> 72 degrees. Can't get tip and butt since it is
> built. Haven't fallen in love with it for bottom
> contact, but does really well with 4" Keitech Easy
> Shiner on a 3/16 to 1/4 oz jig head.


I like mine for the same thing. 3.8 to 4” swim baits on under spins, open hook jigs, etc.

I’m just going by “feel” memory, but I didn’t think the NRX852s was as powerful as the CSS number posted (580g). Was this possibly the number for the NRX JWR casting rod? The NFC MB724 X-ray is too stiff for spinning, in my opinion, unless you are looking to do what you typically do with casting rods, made as spinning. It feels more medium heavy, than medium to me. In general, I felt the Loomis “3” power was comparable to the NFC “5” power. I think a better blank (from NFC) to emulate the NRX+ 852s is the SB724 X-ray. Point Blank blanks are not light enough (in weight) to get a finished rod matching, or exceeding the NRX’s weight. The RX10’s are not light enough either. The X-ray’s are. The only other difference you may not match is the NRX has an extra fast tip (not necessarily a good thing).

I don't use leaders anymore, but when I did, I never used a leader that was long enough to have the leader knot pass through even the tip top of the rod. I just didn't and don't like the idea of a knot passing through the guides while casting, let alone passing through the guides while fighting a fish, so worrying about a leader knot going that far onto the rod never crossed my mind.

With that said .... what Michael posted about a high belly guide allowing the leader knot to pass through the guides more easily, makes perfect sense. The shallower the line's angle, the more easily the knot will pass through the guide. If you're using a leader long enough to allow the leader knot to go that far onto the rod, then I think Michael's suggestion of not changing a thing from your original plan, is a great suggestion. In fact ..... because I use fluorocarbon line on my spinning gear, I may give that set up a try on the SB724 build I'm doing.

Cant hurt, right?

Michael Tarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the high belly guide is recommended if
> you intend to use a long leader where the
> connection knot passes through the guides. When I
> finally implement this layout I was very impressed
> on how far I was casting a very light lure with
> minimal effort.

Not to get off topic too far but what is a "high belly guide" and which of Brent's recipes has this high belly guide.
Asking because I like to use a long leader on braid for certain things. Thanks

Ed Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Tarr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> Not to get off topic too far but what is a "high
> belly guide" and which of Brent's recipes has this
> high belly guide.
> Asking because I like to use a long leader on
> braid for certain things. Thanks

Talking about the 4th high frame in the reduction train like the 2nd page of this PDF: [www.fujitackle.eu]

For example with KL(16H-8H-6M-5.5L) the 5.5L is the "High Belly Guide". Thus far I have built 4 spinning rods and all have just had the 16H-8H-5.5M reduction train. I generally use a long leader. I haven't had issues but can see how the 4th reduction guide makes sense especially if using larger leader knot. Something I'll have to consider for future.

@ David Baylor - I am building an Xray MB 733 spinning rod right now. It is the Mirror Black finish and had an IP=499 and AA of 78. Butt Measured 15.7mm and Tip is 4.5/64th if that helps you any.

Also, I posted some CCS on the MB 764 Xray in several different lengths (as if cutting from Butt). My understanding from Catalog Numbers the Xray MB 764, MB 724, and MB 684 are the same blank just shortened at the Butt to whichever length... Those number are here: [www.rodbuilding.org]

Definitely learned something from this thread regarding the 4 guide reduction train for long leader setups...