Good evening Gentlemen,

As I am getting ready to pick up an Eternity and a Pointblank for future builds I have begun to ponder the Titaniums offered by Alps. I would love to try out the Torzite by Fuji but I am not willing to put that much money into the guide train. I will be building these with 6 dbl followed by singles in 5, 4, and 3.

Do you really feel that the titaniums make a difference to justify the extra cost? I no longer fish in brackish water so the corrosion resistance is a moot point. My main concern is lightening up the build as much as possible. Since these are going to be micro rods will there really be that much difference between the titaniums over the regular Alps or Kigan's?

Thanks and I appreciate your time.

Tom

Guides are worth, exactly what you are willing to pay for them.

I would expect that nearly any decent light guide train would do a very fine job on any of these blanks.

Would notice a difference in feel or action after a day fishing with your conventional guides or the Titaniums, doubtful. But only you would know if you had two identical blanks, reel seats and grips and varied only the guides and fished each for a month or so.

Then, you would be in a position to see if it makes any difference.

But, the only thing that matters when it comes to fishing, is the number of fish in the boat or in the cooler. I would doubt very much that you would find a significant difference in the number of fish landed with one set of guides compared to a different set of guides.

Try it, and let us know your test results.

Be safe

I did some looking on Alp's web site for the weights of the various size guides that you mentioned, for comparisons sake.

A size double foot #6 guide with titanium frame and Zirconium ring weighs .007 oz. The same double foot #6 guide with an SS frame and Zirconium ring weighs .011 oz.

Alp's lists a #5 single foot F guide with titanium frame as being the smallest guide available in that series. It weighs .004 oz. The smallest F guide with a SS frame that Alp's lists is a #6. Interestingly, its listed weight is .003 oz. Stainless steel frame, larger ring size, yet ever so slightly lighter.

Alp's does not list a titanium frame for their Mini guides. Those guides being a 316 SS frame available with a PVD tich coating, if so desired.

Another interesting thing I noticed is in the weight of the Minis when compared to the weight of the F guide. A #3 Mini with a listed weight at .003 oz, weighs as much as a #6 SS F guide, while a #4 Mini weighs the same as a #5 titanium frame F guide. One would think that the Mini's with their smaller ring size, and lower profile frame, would weigh less. Perhaps the Mini's have thicker ceramic rings than the F guides?

What I see by comparing the different guides weights, is that the weight savings offered by a titanium frame are in the double foot guides, and very little if any, in single foot guides. Also, if a person had concerns about passing knots through guides, they could use a titanium frame #5 F guide and have the same weight as a #4 mini.

Although, one might be able to get by with fewer guides by using titanium framed F guides, with their taller profile. But even though there is potential for weight savings by using fewer and taller guides, is the loss of casting performance between a #3 or #4 guide and that of a #5 guide worth it.

I know I really love the way the rods I've built with micro guides, perform. They cast much better than rods I own with larger size guides, and that's despite the micro guide rods I've built having 2 and even three more guides on them.

I should say that I am assuming there are no misprints as far as listed guide weights are concerned on Alp's web site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 08:17AM by David Baylor.

David, I too compared the weights and notices there was no significant difference and that is what got me to thinking if it was really going to be advantageous on a build with my type of purpose in mind. I know the titanium's are a large benefit when having to deal with corrosion, however I will say that I never had any issues with my builds that didn't have them when used in brackish water (and yes I was lazy and didn't rinse when done fishing).

I don't use knots so that is not a concern for me. After thinking about it a bit more, I think that I am going to use up some of my 2.0mm's and just call it a day.

thanks for the help guys.

Tom

I have played with both, and a variety of guides.

The one thing I can notice makes a difference is getting rid of large ceramic rings on spinning rods. I don't like to use size 25 or 30 ceramic ring guides. Taller frame with smaller rings and I can tell the difference. Or Minima's - still with smaller rings - great!

Just my .02.

Thanks - Marc

Keep it simple - that's all I can handle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 12:53PM by Marc Morrone.

POINT Blank is perhaps the lightest most sensitive blank available (according to folks building on it). Don't add the weight back (after paying for the technology) by using anything less than the lightest guide that will do the job.

Jim,
that is one of the reasons I am going to try the POINT Blank, it will be compared to North Fork Composites HM as well as the Eternity, CTS, XMG, Hydra, and SCV from St. Croix. It is going to be fun to compare them all against one another.

All of the other builds have been built very similar, so this should be a pretty heads up comparison. There are slight differences such as 3mm's or 2.5's and even the 2mm's and I am curious to see what affect they will have. Honestly with the guides I really don't think that you will be able to tell a difference, the only thing I can come up would be the length of the wraps and of course the extra epoxy to cover them.


Tom

Thomas Kaufmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim,
> that is one of the reasons I am going to try the
> POINT Blank, it will be compared to North Fork
> Composites HM as well as the Eternity, CTS, XMG,
> Hydra, and SCV from St. Croix. It is going to be
> fun to compare them all against one another.
>
> All of the other builds have been built very
> similar, so this should be a pretty heads up
> comparison. There are slight differences such as
> 3mm's or 2.5's and even the 2mm's and I am curious
> to see what affect they will have. Honestly with
> the guides I really don't think that you will be
> able to tell a difference, the only thing I can
> come up would be the length of the wraps and of
> course the extra epoxy to cover them.
>
>
> Tom

Are you going to build them all with the same components? That sounds like an awesome comparison.

Adam,
Yes for the most part they are built with the same components. They all have carbon skinned split grips built on 6lb foam. They all have an ECS seat and are built with micro guide trains as suggested by Steve Gardner. The guides do vary slightly as some have Kigans and others have Alps however they are all the same sizes. The only odd duck will be the North Fork HM. It is built with cork grips as I was out of the carbon when I built it, I will say that so far it is the most sensitive of the group as perceived by me. I am still waiting on the Eternity and the POINT Blank to complete the comparison.



Tom

Steve has built a POINT Blank, you may want to private message him for any insights he may have gained.

Jim,

thank you. I will do that shortly to learn what he has for insight on them. I have always trusted the guidance he has given me and it has worked beautifully both in rodbuilding and otherwise!

thanks,
Tom