Perhaps 'contrast' and the two guide rings NOT matching was the desire. And all the hack experimentation and fun I have done with these has really focused on getting them centered. Trying and tweaking the wonderful stuff in your great mag and this forum is the core of its value, as is open, respectful discussion. Ex., " That's mine. Everything matches, which at least helps with the look" Opinion, well stated and obviously not directed as a personal attack. Your tact and class Tom is a huge reason for the success of these venues. I salute you.

Anyone that's going this route - something else that is certainly obvious to some but perhaps not others, is that you can bend the legs of most of the guides pretty easily which will either raise or lower the ring position to help you center the first two rings.

As far as all the "hack" stuff, I'd guess that most of the off-the-shelf stuff we have today is largely the result of hack jobs that somebody undertook initially. It's what makes custom rod building custom. When guys stop trying things and just rely on what they can get from the commercial manufacturers, custom rod building will cease to advance.

..............

Bill, there is always the original Castaway MicroWave that doesn't come as a complete guide train. It does come paired with a reduction guide, but I doubt that you will find a set of black running guides that looks out of place with a Fuji Y frame reduction guide. Comparing the two side by side, the AmTak version just uses smaller guide rings to offer the same guide height as the original version.

I'm still hoping for a shorter frame version, as I use 1000 and 1500 sized spinning reels for the majority of my spinning rod applications. If I ever get it, I'll likely be rewrapping some rods, as the MW does work and work well. If I used 3000 and 4000 sized reels, I would have no reason not to use the MW on those builds, either the Castaway version or the AmTak version.

The bottom line is I don't think we would have much discussion on the merits of the MW without AmTak choosing to market it as a complete guide train. The NGC has been around for a long time, yet how many production rods took advantage of choosing a good all around NGC layout for their rods? Instead, they chose to use extra guide sizes resulting in rods that perform worse than a rod built with NGC with a slightly mismatched reel size. The accolades and the inroads that the MW has made in production rods is likely very closely tied to the complete guide train being bundled. It gives production builders a simple cookie cutter recipe to use across a pretty broad range of rods. Without the system being sold, anglers would be complaining that the MW looks funny and doesn't cast well.

As a custom rod builder, there is still some meat left on the bone with the MW system. You can market your ability to improve things slightly with a different selection of running guides.

By the way, on my balance,

7 MW 5mm running guides has a mass of 1.5 g
7 Alps 5mm fly guides has a mass of 1.1 g
7 Alps 4mm fly guides has a mass of 1.0 g

There is some weight to be saved, but the taller frames of the MW running guides will satisfy those who complain about the line touching the blank on casting rods. It's perhaps the best choice of a single guide that will satisfy a great many builders and can be used on a broad range of rods that AmTak could have made for the system. For those who tinker and push the limits, it puts incorporating the cost of a MW system on par with an upgrade to Ti frames on a casting rod. If you build rods for others, pass the additional cost of the running guides on as part of an upgrade package. If you build for yourself, find an application for the running guides, sell them, or mail them to Don Morse ;).

In regard to the twin guide systems, the Y frame spinning guides when paired with taller match frames behind line up well (all guides have ceramic inserts). You may need to bend the frame of one or both guides a tad to get perfectly centered, but like Tom says, with the MW available, you have a better mouse trap already available, and likely with a lighter total weight as well.

Joe

Joe

Did anyone ever answer the post about
If I break The Butt microwave Guide Can i get Just That guide Or Will i have to Buy A set

Bill - willierods.com

Don Morse answered that question on the first page Bill.

Lance

Do what you want to do. That's why it's called "custom" rod building. What looks good to one may not appeal to another. I think the bigger question is, does it work better? Did it allow you to achieve what you wanted? If so, do it.

did not see it but will look back
thanks

Found it

What is the Warrenty process Got a link to it

I am just thinking if the guide is stepped on and a new one is needed and paid for

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 09:35PM by bill boettcher.

The concept of the Micro-Wave butt guide alone is a wonderful achevement but not actually necessary for freash water spinning. The real merrit of the butt guide would benafit the surf anglers using 9 ft. rods and longer. At one time after the Micro-Waves were well on their way,there was talk about going to a larger frame size for just that perpose. Will we (surf guys) ever see that guide?

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

I believe they offer it under the designation of a "catfish" or "carp" guide.

................

thanks Tom, I'll look into it.

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

Finger to fast sorry

William Sidney
AK



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2015 01:27AM by william G Sidney.

I will pay the extra $$ for the guides it is cheaper that making my own, an it is a high cost item , in time I hope the price will go down
but for now I will pay an use a good an proven product

William Sidney
AK

Bill.... if you have a broken guide please get a hold of me..... don@americantackle.us

_______________________________
God Bless, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

He'd have to buy the guides first

He'd have to buy the guides first

Coming late to the this thread .Also saw Tom's double guide configuration quite a while ago. What I do is to construct my own 'mirowave' guide by combining two guides together so that only one feet is touching the blank. I use smaller rings than the microwave since I use UL lines, and also want guides that are considerably lighter than the microwave butt guide. It's been a while since I weighed them but they are a lot lighter than the microwave butt guide. This probably doesn't apply to most but I do build for UL applications. Also,I build only for my own personal use. They do look elegant.

Mo

Coming late to the this thread .Also saw Tom's double guide configuration quite a while ago. What I do is to construct my own 'mirowave' guide by combining two guides together so that only one feet is touching the blank. I use smaller rings than the microwave since I use UL lines, and also want guides that are considerably lighter than the microwave butt guide. It's been a while since I weighed them but they are a lot lighter than the microwave butt guide. This probably doesn't apply to most but I do build for UL applications. Also,I build only for my own personal use. They do look elegant.

Mo

Billy V ----- ROFL

I never said they did not work I was just a little moved that you can not or should not use the NGC method to set the guides up or a streight edge
4 pages and I had to go back and see what opened this can of worms That streight edge thing was with fuji guides
A lot of this is Heck just give builders a choise let them buy the butt The US is for choises - is it not

Then again it should be able to be used with the Microwave also
O gee her we go for another 4 pages

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 05:25PM by bill boettcher.

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you can not or should not use the NGC
> method to set the guides up or a streight edge

Bill,

I think you answered your own questions. This statement has a lot to do with the reason that it is sold as a complete guide set. The recipe should be followed to the choke, perhaps first running guide in this scenario makes better sense, the frame style is up to you. By just selling the butt guide, people would do the above and complain that there is no gain in performance. Sure you might be able to do slightly better with lighter running guides and tweaking the spacing a bit for the particular reel, blank, line combination you have, but it won't be much.

Your full statement is akin to saying, I don't know why we don't use all of the intermediate sizes in the NGC reduction train because they were used on cone of flight factory layouts in the past. The MW is a different concept in much the same way that COF, NGC, and Fuji KR differ from one another. The MW does the reduction in a single guide, but the line still needs to be brought to the blank in a controlled fashion. Changing the angle of the line leaving the the MW is going to affect its performance because it changes the boundary conditions.

Joe