Hi,
Anyone have an (almost) foolproof way to keep metallic thread from unlaying when turned onto a wrap. It seems that the first wrap unlays at the starting point. Do you tighten the twist before wrapping?
Herb

One key, is to avoid drawing the thread trough tensioners that drag on the thread, such as the disk type.

Phil,
Never use them. Only use magnetic type.
Herb

Or putting pressure on the spool

Bill - willierods.com

Same here..thighten the twist before start wrapping. Because this is happening only when you start the wrap(insert/accent thread)..its not a big deal, a few twists and good to go.

Its not about the tensioner at all, I use just a few inch long thread for insert wrap (no tension,no spool involved) and the same( lets say) problem...kind of...It is easy to solve( a few re-twist) ..so its not a real issue for me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 04:04PM by Mihalyfalvi Gabriel.

Are you doing a complete wrap of a guide or just trim
Trim or even a butt wrap you can take a piece off the spool and hold in your ( clean ) hands or even a fly ting bobber

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 04:07PM by bill boettcher.

Will happen anyway...at the point where you start to wrap the insert/accent wrap, after you over wrapped the starting tag end of the metallic..where the metallic coming out from under the main wrap and you start the insert wraps, the metallic( at least ProWrap) will unlay from the nylon core.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 04:21PM by Mihalyfalvi Gabriel.

Check but I think Fishhawk was said to be better in there metallics

Bill - willierods.com

Hello Herb,

I'm just an amateur, but really like working working with metallics. I take it you are talking about the wrap itself becoming loose, at the very start where the main thread crosses over the tag end? If so, one trick I've found to keep it from loosening is:

1. Start wrap as you normally do, but keep the tag end next to main thread (no cross-over)

2. Gently pull tag end perpendicular to blank while turning blank counter-clockwise. This will let the looped thread slip around the blank while also tightening it a bit.

(My rod wrapper has the thread coming from the front and crossing over the blank as I turn the blank AWAY from me, I am also RIGHT handed so may need to reverse directions depending on your setup).

3. Keep the thread tight by curling it with your left hand fingers and put pressure on the blank with your left thumb to lock it in place.

4 With your right hand, lift the main thread up and cross it over the tag end. Again pull perpendicular on the tag end with your left hand to take out any slack.

This is the key part:

5. Hold blank abt a half inch away from wrap with thumb and middle finger of right hand. Use the tip of your right index finger and put pressure on the "X" where the threads cross over. Keep this finger locked.

6. Let go of the tag end in your left hand. Turn the blank to wrap while keeping tension on the crossover with your index finger. You may have to rock your finger slightly from tip to pad to keep the thread tight as the blank turns. Remove your finger after one full turn (tag end locked securely under main thread) and wrap as normal.

I've never had metallics unlay or untwist since starting my wraps this way. Of course there are other ways to keep thread tight when starting a wrap, but this has been working good for me. Good luck.

-chad

I used to have problems with Gudebrod Metallic thread. The metallic "skin" would sometime crack or peel open
revealing the inner support threads.
Then I changed to Sulky Metallics. No more problems.
I never apply pressure directly to the thread... just the spool.

Hey guys thanks for replies.

MG - Thanks. I figured twisting would do it. Guess I have to keep track of which end I insert under main wrap so I know which way to twist.

Bill B.- Just a single or double trim wrap with only 6-8" in hand. I use a rubber tipped, (slightly) weighted spring-clamp to weigh it down.

M.G. - that is exactly where it is unlaying. Drives me crazy.

Bill. B - Tried Fish Hawk, Gudebrod, some others - best is Sulky.

Chad - No - the wrap is not loose. As a matter of fact I may be tensioning it too much. Not sure I can follow your description. Will have to study it.

David and others - When I wrap trim bands I make metallic wraps by "flipping" 6-8" of metallic over the blank and tensioning by pulling metallic tight under over-wraps of main thread. Then I wrap a few times over the metallic before I neaten it up. It looks fine except upon close inspection I can see a small amount of core.

Hello Herb,

I mis-understood, thought you were talking about starting a guide wrap with metallics, thanks for clarifying.

So if I understand correctly, when doing an inlay your metallic thread itself is untwisting and showing nylon core? Tightening the thread via twisting may help. Perhaps also try adjusting tension on the main thread slightly lighter and gently rock the metallic back and forth as you pull it under the over-wraps?

I use mainly Fishhawk and Gudebrod, thread tension is set such that I can pull out some thread by pinching it with thumb and index finger.

-chad

Chad,
Thanks.

My procedure for burying the metallic trim (MT) is that I tuck the very end of the MT under one (1) wrap of main wrap about 2-3mm before I want trim to show. After the 2-3mm of wrap over the MT I begin my trim wrap and that is where the core shows itself.
Just as you say. If I loosen the main wraps the MT will just pull out under slight pressure. I think what you are suggesting is to have a substantial (1" or so) of MT toward the beginning of the wrap that will have to be snipped at some point. I guess that will enable me to reduce main wrap pressure on MT.
Herb

Chad,
Re-read your post and you gave me an idea to alter way I tie in the MT.
Leave a tag end that I can manipulate - as you say- perpendicular to blank - and proceed with wrap until trim wrap is complete. BUT I will leave a gap at the point where I introduce the MT so my scalpel will be able to fit and not damage the wrap. I will then close it by packing as usual.
Thanks Chad.
Herb

Herb,

Good idea! Yes, I tuck the trim end of my metallic inlays the same as you posted- by razoring it close to the main wrap then gently pulling/rocking it 45 degrees up and down on an axis perpendicular to the blank. Sometimes it works, sometimes it pulls completely out and I have to start over.

Yesterday I looked very closely at some of my older rods and a few wraps showing very slight, maybe a few mm, "stretching" of the metallic braid to where I could see the white nylon core. This was only with the braided type of metallic thread. The older red/green labeled Gudebrod solid coated metallic I'm currently using doesn't seem to do this at all.

Anyway, I'll have to try your idea next time of leaving a gap in the main thread and then packing over the metallic. Hope it works out, thanks for sharing.

-Chad

Herb

What I do is always start and end a wrap on the underside So as the rod is fished these things are under the rod

I start my main wrap Add the trim thread wrap Then do my 5 - 8 wraps over to keep it in place ( depends on tension ) When time for trim Hold the trim thread light tension And push it into the main wrap Then with the main wrap thread ( wrapping from left to right ) pushed to the right I wrap the trim Light pact Pull the main thread up though the trim so as not to show though the trim As you do them you will see Light pack to see how it looks Pack check Then finish wrap

I think what you see is the cover splitting and opening up when trying to tightening up the trim thread buy pulling on it then you see a light spot of the under thread

hope that made sense

Bill - willierods.com