What are the advantages of snake guides versus single foot? Does anyone ever combine the two on the same rod? I've built spinning rods and am moving more toward fly fishing, and so am interested in learning more about fly rod building. Thanks

Well, guess I should have read today's posts before adding mine. Great info.

Harry.... I prefer single foot like many others..... mostly because of the weight.

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Super Tight Lines......Don

I don't think it makes two cents worth of difference depending on the action of the blank and what you will be using it for. I use both interchangeably.

Personal preference
A lot say that snake guides let line and knots slide thought very well
But with two threads wraps So if you have 9 guides on compared to single foot guides you have 18 thread wraps Extra weight ??? Plus finish I tend to think so as long as you do not go to small on the guides I like Single foot guides

Then i always tie my leaders as long as my rod So the leader and knots are always Outside the tip Don't really have to pase thought the guides when casting line

Only when stringing up the rod

Bill - willierods.com

I'll add my penny to Randolph's comment.
I build only fly rods and like Mr. Ruwe use both.
I once as an experiment did two of the same blank ( 8 1/2' 6wt ) and did one with single foots and one with snakes.
without actually weighing the rod most people I had try them could not feels the weight difference.
maybe it's tradition, but why haven't major manufacturers gone to single foot guides? single foots would cut their cost significantly.
I would be more concerned about guide placement and static test than snake vs single foot.

I have used several of St Croix's 9 ft 2 pc 5 and 7 wt rods Years ago SCIV blanks and they were all with single foot guides

Bill - willierods.com

Gary, I use single foot Fuji SIC guides, and they do increase the cost significantly.

Randolph, I agree that the Fuji SIC would cost more but i was thinking more along the lines of their labor cost. since there is only half as many wraps to do it should take less time. and time is money after all. But, I thin we are getting off topic and there will be arguments on both sides. in the long run I say go with what works for you.

Since you are casting a line with a fly rod -- many more times -- then you do with a cast or spinner

Weight is a Factor and lighter is better Plus weight will HINDER performance on any rod

I would say IMHO that ringed guides ( depending on line weight ) Will be heaver then wire guides

Do your own thing But you want light weight At lest I do ????

Bill - willierods.com

How much weight does a wrap plus finish add? Even at the tip I'd be surprised if it made a difference.

I prefer snakes. Part is aesthetic, II did some with single foots and I don't like their look as much. But beyond that I like being able to tape one foot down well and wrap the other, then remove the tape and wrap that foot. With single foots I need to secure the guide foot and remove the tape / rubber band while wrapping. Not a big deal but the fact that I like the look of snakes, easier for me to secure the guide foot, and I doubt the weight is enough to matter add up for me. Others come down on the other side.

Harry, I think you need to make a "pros and cons" list and decide what is important for you. For example you might list single foot guides as less weight, half the guide wraps, half the finish......and you might list snake guides as more rugged, better knot clearance, more traditional look.....or whatever works for you.

I find it hard to give decent advice when folks don't mention where they fish, what they are fishing for, and how they are doing it. I suppose I could say there are (at least a few) occasions I would not want (or consider) a single foot guide but (other than the slight extra weight/work) none in which I'd consider a snake guide unsuitable.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Like I said

Personal Preference

Plus you have a piece of wire that connects the TWO wraps
When the rod flexes THAT WIRE will slow it and STIFFEN the blank from flexing

I can be wrong but it makes sence to me ???

I am going buy Common Sence here No Sientific evendence

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2013 07:05PM by bill boettcher.

Personally, I like snake guides. I built a few rods with single foot guides and on a couple of occasions knocked the guide and had the varnish crack. With two foot guides (snakes) I find the double security much more durable. As has been mentioned, I don't worry much about weight when it comes to guides and finish. Light weight rods where every one hundredth of an ounce is shaved off seems more like an advertising campaign than based on function.

I only use REC Recoil guides for runners on my personal rods - both S/F and snakes.

But Chico Fernandez will not own a rod with S/F guides and Jerry Siem (Sage head designer) is convinced that snakes shoot line better. But Steve Rajeff designed all his rods with S/F guides. So choose sides or do what you wish.
Herb

Back in the mid '80's I saw Steve Rajeff cast a shooting head with a single hand fly rod from the center of the Kingdom to the 3d level of seats with only 3 back casts. He was using a Sage rod set up with single foot guides. It sold me. I was standing just 10 feet from him when he did it.

Thanks Gary. That advice seems spot on. Still would like to get with you to show you the split cane rod I picked up. Haven't started it yet. Getting into fly casting as well. Will be building my 1st fly rod soon after I address the split cane. Will most likely do graphite for my 1st fly build. Ok if we get together this week? If so, I'll call to set it up. Thanks again.

Sorry, I tend to forget to mention what I fish for the most. I consider myself a steelheader.

Thanks Guys. Really great information here, and a lot to consider. I'll definitely use the pros and cons approach. I am concerned about the "passing the knot" issue. Since I'll usually build rods for steelhead and salmon I'll tend to want longer rods, especially when chasing steelies. Enjoy the Fall and keep those lines tight!!

Let me chip in my .02
I've built once a fly rod on a RX6 6wt blank that was sent to me by mistake.
I was in the market for a much faster and lighter blank, but I decided to build it anyway. But with 10 guides the thing had a serious back bounce problem, it was hard to go past 50' of line without the tip to start wobbling at the stop, sending waves in the rod leg of the loops. At 70' it was just a mess.
I diagnosed that weight on the tip was making the blank's natural bouncing tendencies much worse. Since I was already using light single foot guides with short wraps, so I decided the only way to cut weight was to take one guide out. I re-rigged the rod with 9 guides. It made a very noticeable difference in terms of action crispness (by which I mean much less tip bounce).

Here you've got a couple of pics of the static test at 9 guides. I think it's really not bad.
[g0nefishin9.wordpress.com]

and here my final thoughts about the rod after I had spent hours casting it:
[g0nefishin9.wordpress.com]

conclusions for me: weight on the tip of a fly rod is extremely important. I will take out everything I can without damaging functionality. right now the only reason I can see to prefer snakes is that they freeze less than single foot. if you fish sub-zero a lot, it will make a difference. you're a steelheader, it may be important.

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If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 01:26AM by Laurent Keiff.