Right you are, Ken. I have never even seen anyone Western float fishing with a center-pin rod. Does this involve casting? I still do not understand how increasing the weight of the rod which must be held aloft decreases angler fatigue. Wouldn't a lightweight wrist brace be more effective?

Phil,

Those rods are long, can be built on some surprisingly powerful blanks that can get quite tip heavy. I've only done one float rod for a casting reel (for great lakes tributary steelhead fishing), and the angler requested it be balanced. I've learned a bit about the requirements. Without the added weight, the top weight would be fatiguing to keep up at a 45 degree angle for a day of fishing. As Ken mentioned, the goal is to keep as much line off of the water as possible so the float follows a current seam naturally. If the line is laying on faster or slower moving water, the float will be pulled off of its track. The rod is held up, and the only load on the rod will come from the length of mono or braid between the tip top and the float, which is negligible. Unlike fly rods, these rods do not have the reel at the butt to act as a balance weight. The angler has two choices, do something to strengthen the muscles in the wrist and create the endurance needed, or add a couple ounces of weight to the butt of the rod to reduce tip weight.

As are all things in rod building, a compromise must be made. In this case, some weight is added to help keep the rod and the bait/lure in proper position. The tradeoff is that the rod has more inertia that must be started and stopped during casting and is a bit less efficient. However, if attention is paid to removing unnecessary weight from the rod, particularly in front of the reel seat, but to an extent behind as well, a rod can be built with the minimum amount of added weight necessary to make it more comfortable to fish. When adding this weight, it is best to add it to the extreme butt of the rod, preferably behind the blank, and in the last inch or so of the blank by wrapping lead tape around the blank. Shoving weight inside the blank shortens the distance to the center of mass added, and takes more weight than necessary.

There are far more applications where adding weight to a blank is a bad thing for the sake of balance, but in situations where a rod is fished tip up on an abnormally tip heavy rod due to length and or grip length requirements, the addition of weight for the sake of balance can be beneficial to the angler. For fly rods, crankbait rods, spinnerbait rods, trolling rods, and most general purpose rods, I would not likely balance, but on a long float rod or a long powerful bass rod with a rear grip sized to stay out of the way, balance will be at least a consideration, and if necessary weight will be added, but only after removing unnecessary weight from the rod by using the smallest lightest guides that fit the application, keeping decorative elements behind the reel seat, etc.

With that said, whether or not to balance is not a one size fits all issue. There are a few applications where the additional weight can be beneficial, and many where it is not. Keep an open mind, study the application for the rod, and make this choice just as you would guide selection, reel seat selection, grip length selection, etc. It's nothing more than a technique to keep in your back pocket for the right application.

Joe



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2013 04:58PM by Joe Vanfossen.

Hello All.

Good explanation Joe.

Thanks.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Billy Vivona Wrote:
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> One of the things I have noticed handling custom rods that others have built, specifically these light FW rods which I don't build or fish - they
> worry so much about how light they can build the rod, and they use such a short back grip - that the rod actually feels heavier than a rod which
> weighs more but balances properly.

It doesn't take much to see which feels heavier - a well balanced rod or a tip heavy one.

Here's a bit of an example: at your fave search engine, type this phrase: youtube fishing with rod vedder spring steelhead. Where Rodney's fishing a BC lower mainland river, the Vedder, with the float, and a center pin reel. His fish is at about 9:20 I think. His spot does not demand a long cast as you will see. Float fishing wants short to medium casts, anyway, unless one is fishing the rod paralell to the water, tip nearly in it, pointing downstream, letting line out keeping just taut, to trail the float for a fast strike, on a takedown.

My age causes me to become more easily fatigued. I'm going to try reducing my arm and shoulder fatigue by attaching a lead weight to the butt of my tennis racquet. It's a class three lever, exactly like a Western float fishing rod, so physical laws predict the added weight should decrease the strain of holding my racquet aloft and swinging it.

Phil,

I see what you are going for, but you are making an apples to pears type comparison. Yes both are class three levers. However the tennis racket is used primarily in a dynamic application and the float rod is used mostly in a static application where the balance weight is added to an extension of the lever behind the fulcrum. In this arrangement, the balancing weight is part of a class one lever, as it is on the opposite side of the fulcrum as the load. This would be similar to holding your tennis racket while waiting for your opponent to serve.

There is no doubt that the added weight to a balanced rod is going to require the angler to use more energy casting the rod, as it has more inertia. The fatigue generated from this type of fishing is not caused by repetitive casting, and the anglers are willing to ask the larger muscles in the shoulder and upper arm to support a rod 20%-30% heavier in order to reduce the strain on the smaller muscles of the wrist and forearm significantly. This more closely resembles your tennis racket situation. To handle shoulder and upper arm fatigue from casting or swinging a tennis racket, you want the instrument as light as possible.

Joe

Joe: Has anyone built a lightweight rod grip extension which hooks both behind and above the forearm and takes the leveraged weight of the rod off the wrist? How about a quickly detachable lightweight brace which immobilizes the wrist and locks the elbow at a 45 degree angle? They might not look chic, but they would lessen the strain on the biceps, shoulder, and back muscles from holding an extra weight aloft in front of the angler for hours on end.

Phil,

It seems like a bit of an extreme measure for all but those who are fighting long term issues with their arm. I'm not sure there would be a large enough market for such a device, when a simpler method can be used to satisfy the needs of most. I can see such a thing being useful for those with carpal tunnel syndrome, tennis elbow, or other injuries.

Do you always use the smallest, lightest reel seat hardware possible on a fly rod? Would you use the same fly reel for a 6' 2wt fly rod for panfish as you would for a 9' 8wt fly rod for bass? A smaller lighter reel will certainly hold enough line for both applications, as the fish aren't going to make long runs that require a lot of backing. Using any more weight than absolutely necessary in the reel seat area of a fly rod is accomplishing the same task as adding weight to the butt of a casting or spinning rod.

Joe