I have not used my home made hand wrapper for a while....I built it with the adjustable thread tensioners you find on a Flexcoat starter hand wrapper. I have attached a link to a pic.


I started on a build this weekend and was running some Gudebrod NCP size A through it for underwraps. After a few minutes the tensioner started to make a really loud creaking and the thread got really tight. I kept loosening it but it kept happening. When the thread finally broke i stopped and took all the tensioners apart and cleaned them with a jewelers cloth till they shined. It is still happening.

Anybody have any ideas?

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Thanks,
Joe

it is a lot easyer to put the tension on the spool and not the thread
I guess your thread is going though those two cups ??

Bill - willierods.com

Joe,
Lots and lots of us, use these tensioners with no issue.
Millions and millions of sewing machines are use this style tension disk every day to sew millions and millions of clothing articles.

1. Is the creaking coming from the tensioner - or is it coming from the thread spool?
If the creaking is coming from the thread spool, it may be possible that the spool is binding on the shaft of the thread spool. This would be a very simple thing to both check and to remedy. Just be sure that the thread shaft is 100% clean and has 0 residue on any part of the shaft.

2. With respect to the tensioner. All that the tensioner consists of is a center threaded shat, two tension disks, a tension spring and a tension nut. So, as you have done before, take every component in the tensioner apart.
a. Make sure that every part of the tensioner is very clean. If necessary clean the tensioner in solvent or mineral spirits to be sure that there is no grease or other sticky residue on any part of the tensioner. I would guess, that if the wrapper has not been used in a long time, that there was a gummy residue left on the tensioner - from time, dust and storage. So, first clean every part in mineral spirits. Use a cup of solvent and tooth brush.
Then, use alcohol to clean all of the mineral spirits off of the tensioner.
Finally, use 600 or 1200 sand paper to polish the disks so that there is 0 roughness or any thing to catch a thread on in the tension disks.

Reassemble and between the two items, you should have fixed your issue.

Joe,
The origin of the tension disks that you are using on your wrapper:

[www.tfsr.org]

Roger

Joe, I have had the same problem with those tensioners but only with some old regular thread. And I mean thread that I bought from a store going out of business sometime in the 80's. These are all 100 yard spools. I do not have that problem with new spools of thread regular or NCP.

Joe, it sounds like the spring is turning the upper washer CW which is tightening the nut as you wrap.. Make sure you have the tensioner assembled in the proper order. There is one more part than Roger said. You should have two large wavy washers put on first that guide the thread. Next comes the small wavy spring washer with the line up notch in the center of the whole. That line up notch keeps the washer from turning from friction from the large washer which keeps the spring from turning. If they're put on in the wrong order, the spring will turn one way or the other as the thread comes around it and either tighten or loosen the nut. As per your picture that you posted, the black thread coming around the tensioner to its right will tend to tighten the tension and the copper thread coming around the left tensioner will loosen it. CHECK YOUR WASHER PLACEMENT. Hope this helps.

Mac

John,

[www.google.com]

Refer to the picture and part E. This is the washer with the bar running through the center that goes on just before the tensioln nut. The bar through the center of the washer keeps the tension nut from turning.

Roger

Bill......I built the wrapper with 2 types of tensioners....I use the sewing machine tensioners for nylon thread and spool tensioners for metallics. I have done dozens of rods without a problem with nylon threads......I have had the nut spin on the spool tensioners and have had to address that issue.

John......I have reassembled the tensioners correctly and am sure the spring or nut is not spinning. The washers with the keyway is in the proper slot....all good there.

Roger.....the thread starts to move through the 2 "cups" or wavy washers and all is good....then after a short while it starts to creak....get real tight and it no longer feeds smoothly.....it gets jerky....even after loosening the tension and manually separating the washers to release them...it happens again.

Roger.....you and Ellis hit on 2 things that make all kinds of sense to me.....i went to my old standby store in Brooklyn because I know they still have lots of Gudebrod colors in stock.....I may have gotten hold of an old spool of 209 Goldenrod......I will pull off a hundred feet or so and see if it helps. I will also break out the mineral spirits and 1200 grit sandpaper and get to work on those washers.

thanks you all for your responses......i really appreciate your input.

Joe

Joe

Had that problem Fixed it with two spools close together and a simple piece of plastic under the wing nuts Keeps them from turning
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joe
>
> Had that problem Fixed it with two spools close
> together and a simple piece of plastic under the
> wing nuts Keeps them from turning
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
> /photo/10075/title/ecostilewasher/cat/500

Bill! Thanks for that......I am going to modify mine to resemble that solution.....I use binder clips on the rod above the wing nuts and every once in a while I hear this horrible PIIIIING as it flies off and I lose my tension. Not to mention the clip. :)

Joe, also check and make sure your thread isn't coming off the spool and getting wrapped around the shaft where you have them mounted vertically. If the thread wraps over itself it'll bind right up and do what you describe. That happens to me sometimes and my thread mounts horizontally. Didn't think of that before. And I forgot about that little outer washer. It mounts with the serrations out to mate with the serrations on the nut. Also make sure the whole tensioner isn't turning in the hole in the wood.

Mac



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 01:32PM by John McCleish.

I second Johns statement about the thread coming off the spool. What you're experiencing sounds and acts exactly like the thread jumping off of my spool, and wrapping around the support rod.

Sometimes you don't notice it, because the thread jumps off the spool anyways when you pull it all apart to see what caused the noise and break.

Chris.

Chris Herrera Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I second Johns statement about the thread coming
> off the spool. What you're experiencing sounds
> and acts exactly like the thread jumping off of my
> spool, and wrapping around the support rod.
>
> Sometimes you don't notice it, because the thread
> jumps off the spool anyways when you pull it all
> apart to see what caused the noise and break.
>
> Chris.

Thanks Chris and John.....but that was the first thing that I checked because that used to happen all the time on me when i used this set up with metallics. As soon as I stopped turning the rod the spool would back up a little because the metallic thread was stiff....then a loop would drop down and get wrapped on the spindle. I have isolated this problem to the thread coming out of the tensioner.....for sure. It is feeding in properly.

You should hear it too.....it is LOUD!

Since you are going to redo it Take a look at the home made ones on the photo page A lot of nice made wrappers to get some ideas
Sounds like you need a ( spring) to hold the thread and keep slight tension on it so it does not loosen and get onto the shaft

Bill - willierods.com

Joe,

Let us know what you finally do to solve your problem 100% of the time.

Roger

Joe,
I went back and looked carefully at the design of your wrapper.
Out of curiosity, do you ever use more than one thread at a time with your wrapper. I see that you have several tension disks, but was wondering if you actually ever use all of the tensioners at the same time.

If so, what is the thread path for the thread after leaving the tensioner?

I am assuming that you have the thread come off the spool, run through the tensioner, and then through the eyelet at the front of the rod, and then up to the front side of the rod for wrapping? Then, you rotate the top of the rod away from you when you wrap?

Roger

Joe,
I was just wondering if you only used a single thread at a time, why not use just a single tensioner at the front of your wrapper. Then, put a self centering thread guide about 2-3 inches in front of your spools to keep the thread from wrapping on the thread shaft.
That way, there is no tension on the thread, until you actually need it to feed onto your rod.

Put another guide about 3 inches behind the tensioner to keep the thread feeding straight into the tensioner.

For thread guides, I just straighten out an extra rod guide, drill a small hole in the wrapper base, drop in a drop of glue, insert the guide and you are good to go..




Just wondering.

Roger

Roger......thank you for your interest in my problem....you are always very generous with your experience.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

That is a marked up pic of the thread path on my wrapper. I never use more than one tensioner at a time but I built it with 4 in various positions so as to never have the thread travel on a really sharp angle if I were wrapping on one end of the blank or the other. I live in an apartment and have limited space....meaning I work on the coffee table in the living room and do not have a bench. My honey protects her dining room table very vigorously!

The black line is the path the thread would travel as shown and the red lines show that the guide in front can slide left or right depending on the tensioner I am using.....just a souped up Flexcoat hand wrapper. You are correct in your assessment of my wrapping method.

I copied the tool shelf in back from somebody's pics posted here....and have since modified a part of the tool shelf to act as a spool tensioner for metallics....with springs and wing nuts and stuff.

BTW......last night I cleaned up the tensioners as per your suggestion and proceeded to get back to work. My problem persisted with my old spool od Gudebrod A NCP but no matter how hard I tightened it down my new spool of D NCP went through smooth as silk. It must be that particular spool as Ellis mentioned earlier. Go figure.

Joe,
Just for another idea.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

This is the tensioner design that several of us use around here for rod building.
The main difference is that the last thing that the thread sees is the tensioner, rather than running the tensioned thread through guides. Of course in this design, we wrap from behind the rod, rather from in front of the rod.

With the issues of metallic thread, I never run metallic thread through this wrapper. For metallic thread, I use a magnetic tension based spool device that works well to put tension on the spool rather than the thread.

It sounds like you and your old spool of Gudebrod A NCP thread and a garbage can need to get acquainted.

Over the years, I have found that if I ever have even a single instance of an issue with a spool of thread, sticking, fuzzies, or any other issues - the thread is quickly pitched out to avoid future issues. If one keeps it, the same issue will come up again, when one least wants it and causes problems again.

Thanks for sharing the information about your wrapper. Always like to see new and different ideas from anything that I might currently be using or doing.

Roger