Hi everybody,
I have a few questions about the difference between the "revolver" and bumper wrap method. I believe a revolver wrap means that you would start with the stripper guide at 180, then the next guide at 90, then the next at 45 and fourth at zero. (please forgive me if my definition is wrong). Secondly the bumper method as i have sen it defined is the stripper guide at 180, the the next is a low profile guide at 90 which is the bumper that keep line off the blank, then all the following guides
are placed at 0 degrees.
Therefore my question would be is one method superior in anyway to the other? In terms of castability? Is one method better for more parabolic blanks that bend down into the handle? Everything i have looked up has stated it is a mater of preference but has not stated why one would build using one method versus the other . As of now I like using the bumper method because it allows me to buy 1 size 20 guide and 8 or 9 size ten guides which normally works out to be a little cheapers than the standard 20, 16, 12, 10, 8x3 i used to use. But other than that i don't know what the true difference is between these methods.

When I do a spiral wrap

I put The tip top on runners on A Butt guide Run line through them to the reel

I let the line tell me the size guides to use and where they should go

Call it a Willie Wrap
of coarse tweak - test cast - Static test i try to keep the line in the straightest possession possible to the reel
then also check - retreve - to make sure the line is Not Loading on one side of the reel

Bill - willierods.com

X10 on Bil's method. Willie wrap it is.

Note:
I have also found that for most setups and reels that I have used, require a slight offset on the first guide.
i.e. I find that about a 5 degree offset in the direction of the spiral helps with line stacking. Even with a self leveling reel, I find that if I put the first guide at 0 degrees and then reel in about 100 feet of line on slight pressure, that I get severe line piling on one side of the reel. But, by offsetting the butt guide just a bit, the line stacking is eliminated.

I generally use at least three guides to get from the top of the reel to the bottom. I also find that the 2nd guide can be quite small and a type that is very close to the blank. This is the area that I find where the line normally wants to virtually touch the blank. So by using a guide that is smaller and closer to the blank, there is less line friction on both casts and retrieves.

Be safe
Roger

Hi Mike,
I'm using an O'Quinn spiiral and I do it the same as Bill ie let the blank tell you the right sizes and where they go. An O'Quinn spiral is supposed to be better for casting as it only has one direction change but it makes sense to me for whatever rod I'm building. I use the smallest guides that will pass the line and connections for all the 180 degree guides and usually the first transition guide. The last two transition guides are determined by the reel height so that the line doesn't touch any guide until the first 180 when the rod is straight. The stripper needs to be big enough so that the line doesn't touch the ring when the line is on either side of the reel. A static test may result in some small mods but usually the transition guides are ok.
I've also done a few with 0,60,120,180 spiral and they worked well also. One of my O'Quinn spirals uses a size six stripper then the rest are fours. It's the reel you are using and how high the line is off the blank that determine what you need.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Sort of, almost. In the Simple Spiral there is no transition guide. The first guide is at 0 and the second guide is at 180. Then a guide is inserted at 90 at a point exactly halfway between these two, but it is not part the regular spacing. If you're doing this type wrap, but careful to get this right.

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i feel dumb. i think someone secretly replaced my brain with Folger's crystals.

Let me restate some things. Currently I only build saltwater rods. I fish braid with a mono top shot so the guides need to be at least a size eight to pass the albright knot. I am using a simple spiral kind of but instead of using a 20-16-12-10-8-8-8 and placing a low profile 8 in between the 20 and 16 at 90 degrees, I now use a spiral where i use a 20-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8 with one 8 90 degrees between the zero degree 20 and first 180 degree 8. I have found that using the two extra 8's helps keep the line in a curve closer to how the blank bends. Does that make sense? It simulates an arch with the line that is closer to the bend of the blank.
Now my question to you all is would there be any benefit in me using a system where i use a size 20 at 5 degrees (thanks Roger) a size 16 at 45 degrees a size 12 at 135 degrees and then a size ten at 180 degrees and then three eights at 180 also?
I appreciate all responses so far thanks for being patient with me as both my articulation and terminology are off hopes this makes it more clear!

Hi Mike,
No advantage using all those sizes, only extra weight that is not required. If the line is following the blank curve and is close to the blank then you have done well. If you only need two sizes to do it then fine. Check the line for clearance on the stripper and perhaps you don't need a guide as big as a 20. The O'Quinn spiral has the stripper at about five degrees also so put it where it suits the type of spiral you are using.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

thats a good point maybe a 20 isn't needed thanks!

My last one used a size 16 stripping or butt guide, followed by all size 6's from there out, including the bumper guide. There is absolutely no reason to use any additional sizes. It serves no purpose.

My earlier comment regards the fact that many think they are using the Simple Spiral when they are actually using a single 90 degree transition spiral wrap. The difference is that with the latter, you have the 90 degree guide as part of the normal guide spacing, not something installed between two normally spaced guides.

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Wow! That is why I love this forum! I just tried a spiral wrap with one 90 degree transition guide and it worked! No more bumper guide between the first and second guide for me. Thanks everybody!

But you will now have side pressure on that 90 degree guide. Not saying it won't work, but it may not be ideal for heavy duty applications.

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What would be considered a heavy duty application?

I would say anything above what you might encounter in largemouth bass fishing or similar. Guides and wraps aren't really made to handle direct side loads very well.

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Thanks for info again! This is a 15-30lb saltwater rod so I will re-wrap thanks again. Back to the bumper!

For a rod that heavy, my choice would be the Simple Spiral or the Revolver/Roberts type wrap.

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Tom,

Just a suggestion here... Is there an online resource available to us where someone can see, in one document or illustration, all the various methods of implementing spirals currently in fashion? If not, that might be a useful thing to have available online for people to refer to.

I know if someone searches for each one, they can find some info, but I think it would be more helpful if there was one definitive source that referenced standardized terminology to both illustrate and describe the benefits, drawbacks, and suggested uses for each method.

That would be really helpful!!

It's not online but it's all in this CD that Tom has created, plus a ton of other stuff.

[www.rodmakermagazine.com]

Thanks,
Chad Huderle

Huderle Custom Rods
Prior Lake, MN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2013 01:30PM by Chad Huderle.

We did a compilation of those various methods in RodMaker a few years ago.

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All this reading has me slightly confused. The reel height when mounted on the rod is the determining factor as to which size guides is to be used, plus instead of 0° the first stripper guide should be at 5° (towards the spiral) to help the line feed properly to the reel so line lay is even. I knew nothing of this when I ordered my first custom rod. My builder didn’t ask for my input except to express his strong opinion in that I should be using a spiral wrapped rod for the obvious reasons. Great info to know...

Sticks & Stones may break my bones but RODS & REELS excite me!