So I have been reading for days trying to figure out the best way to set up a salmon rod with a spiral wrap and micro guides. I would really appreciate if someone could help me narrow my options such as guide size, guide height, guide order, guide distances etc. I'm building this on a SM 867-2 Rogue Rod Blank, it will most often be used with 25lb mono. I know there is tons of posts on this topic, but I just can't seem to find the one with the information I need.

Thanks in advance

Jim

You just set your guides as if it is a standard build then rotate the guides to the bottom side. You may want to add a guide at the 90degree position when making the transitionfrom top to bottom.

Hi Jim,
You don't need very big guides for the transition, especially if the reel has a level wind. The first guide will depend on the height you need to get the line in the middle of the ring and how far out it is positioned from the reel. Get down to the smallest size as quickly as you can, usually the third guide from the reel. If your using a leader make sure the knots you tie with the 25lb mono will fit through the micros or you will have problems. Guide numbers, sizes and distances will depend on a static test and the reel you are using. You might get away with something like an 8, a 6 then 4's out to the tip. The 8 might be positioned 18 - 24 inches from the reel. The micros can be positioned about four inches apart from the tip for the first three or four (but that will depend on the blank action) then increase the spacing. You will need to fine tune the positions with a static test to get the best result. If someone has done something similar on that blank you might get some better starting points.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Jim,
If you are setting up this rod for a spiral wrap - just put on your tip guide and the runners in the same position as if you were building a spinning rod. Since the runners are on the bottom, you never have to worry about the line hitting the blank near the tip.

I like to use at least three guides to get from the top to the bottom of the rod. So, just make sure that your butt guide is of the size and height that allows for smooth line flow form your particular reel - with respect to its size.
As you begin to roll over the line, you can go rather quickly to a smaller guide. As a matter of fact, when you are on the side of the rod, this guide does not have to be much bigger than your runners.

The important thing is to glue the tip on your rod, tape on your guides and then do a bunch of test casts and low tension and high tension retrieves on the line. You want to make sure that your line has smooth flow - both going out, going in - on both a slack line and on a tight line. If you find that the line is stacking on one side of the reel or the other - adjust the butt guides orientation. I generally find that I need to always offset the butt guide about 5 degrees in the direction of the rod guides spiral to prevent line stacking on the reel on a slack line retrieve.

Test for your self, and adjust angle of guides, position of guides and size of guides until you are at the spot where the line virtually never touches a guide during either the cast or a slack line retrieve.

You basically want the line to be running in air, rather than rubbing a guide as you cast and retrieve your line.

Good luck
Roger

Thanks for the great input guys, this is going to be a casting rod. It will have a Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 6500 on it. Since it will be a casting rod and from what I read about casting performance from spiral wraps, I plan on spiral wrapping it with a stripping guide, two transition guides and then the 180 guide in what I guess would be referred to as a revolver or Forhan style.

I want to use Fuji Alconite guides on this rod and was wondering what your knowledge of the Heavy-Duty Micro guides holding up to larger fish like salmon vs the KR concept belly micro guides is. Is one going to hold in the threads more than the other? As for the stripping guide, the transitions guides, and the 180 guide what would be your recommendation in the Fuji line for these spiral positions? There is a variety of frame heights and that combined with ring sizes is a lot to guess at what would be in the ball park on these guides.

Col, were you suggesting as an example that a rod could be set up using an size 8 for the stripping guide, then a size 6 for the transition guide and go directly to the size 4 micros at the 180 guide?

Thanks again for you help!

Jim

Hi Jim,
Yes, that's the way I've got a few setup with medium/small baitcasters and it works well. Mine are setup with an O'Quinn spiral which isn't difficult and has three transition guides. The line shouldn't touch any guide ring until it gets to the first 180 and therefore you only have one direction change. The 6500 isn't a big reel so you can probably go smaller such as 6,5 and 4's to the tip. Look at the size of the level wind guide and you don't need much bigger than that. Set the stripper up with the line in the centre of the spool so that the line is in the centre of the stripper ring. Then get the line on either side of the spool and the line should stay within the the ring without touching it. Adjustments can be made by moving the stripper a bit nearer or further away. Depending on the line size you are using you may need to go with double footers for the first two transition guides. The third transition guide will be around the 160 degree mark and there isn't a lot of side stress on that one so you can make it a single footer. I don't use Fugi's any more but the ones with the bigger foot are bound to be held on better. Also use Forhan locks on the single footers.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Do you have spiny water fleas where you fish? You can clog up the guides with them if you go too small.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 09:13PM by Chuck Mills.

I recently built a spiral wrap on that blank - 1 piece.

I built the rod to my specific location and the way guys fish or them here. With that in mind I went with DBL foot spirals to single fly runners (personal preference). 12,10,8 dbls to size 6 runners, locking wraps on the runners. Fuji Alconite guides. Nothing heavy or fancy. Didnt go too small on the guides as to not scare away the casual customer.

Most likely 15-20lb mono will be used on a smaller conventional reel - Some are even using bass reels like Curado 300's.

Nice looking stick.

Good luck!

Jim,
Go ahead and use what you want for runners, but for a Salmon rod and the myriad conditions that one encounters and the knots and leaders that many folks use - I wouldn't use any guide smaller than a size 6.

I doubt that you are going to gain any thing at all by going to size 4's and potentially have a lot to lose with these smaller guides.

Good luck
Roger

I used single foot 8's for runners on my spiral wrapped salmon rod and find that they pass bobber stops really well even in icy conditions.

Rick,
I am in the process of building a bunch of rods that are going to be used outdoors in subfreezing conditions.
The client came back to me last night and specifically asked that no guide be smaller than a size 8.

Same reason as Rick just posted.

Take care
Roger

Good thoughts Rick and Roger we definitely get mornings here where your guides can ice up a bit. I have never built with micro guides and it would seem that they have a limited application especially when it comes to the smaller sized guides.

@ RIck - On your salmon rods, what are you using for the stripper, transition guide(s) and 180 guide? What type of spiral wrap are you using on these rods? This is my first spiral rod so all the information I can get is really appreciated!

Thanks

Jim

My salmon/steelhead casting rod is built on a Batson 11'6" 6/7wt spey blank.
I used PacBay BDPLSG SiC double foot guides: 12, 10, 8 @ 96", 83.5", 72.5" from the tip.
The spiral pattern is similar to the Forhan Revolver style with stripper at -5 degrees, second guide at 60 degrees, and third at 120 degrees and the spiral revolves away from the reel handle.
The first single foot guide (and all BFSG08 runners) is at 180 degrees.
The important part is that the spiral completes before the blank curve breaks under load and on this blank the entire spiral occurs on one piece (of 4) so there's no alignment challenges when assembling the rod..
It's a fun rod to fish and certainly gets some strange looks from 'traditional' fishers.
I don't believe the casting performance is impacted by the spiral wrap.

Any spiral wrap I do I like Roger glue the top on at the 180
Then since the runners are as a spinning rod I may use a spinning chart -- just to start or just do what I feel is a Start
Then run a Fly Line thought the guides A bright color so I can see it easy
back to the reel Where the line touches the blank I mark it Butt guide as needed height and size
Then put pressure on it Adjust and change sizes several times till I like the -- straight line path

generally let the line tell me where and the size of the guides With and without pressure on them

Of coarse go out and cast and retrieve line UNDER pressure

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks again for the help, I think I have all the info I need to start the rod. I will post some pics when I get it done!


Jim