I ha e a Phenix blank FX761-1 and it seems to have 2 spines 180 apart. Have any of you seen this before and how did you solve this problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2012 05:01PM by Paul Luechtefeld.

Why is it a problem? What does spine matter?

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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I thought you were supposed to build on the spine

Thank you Tom, I am new and the video I have says to build on the spine. As your test said it doesn't matter how do you know which side to put the guides on.I would also like to say this forum has been very helpful.

It is a proven fact that spine cannot stop rod twist, nor affects casting accuracy and if you orient the effective spine in the "up" position, you will have the weakest orientation possible for deadlifting.

By the same token, if you do build on the spine, there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't worry yourself over it too much. Think about it a little bit and then just orient it where ever you think it should go. Your rod will fish just fine.

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Tom is very vocal about building on the straight, and thats fine. Others choose to do it the right way and build it on the spine, and thats fine too. Simply find the dominant spine and continue on from there.

Kevin

Kevin Knox
ANGLER'S ENVY CUSTOM RODS
QUEEN ANNE, MD 21657
#_#_#_#_#
www.anglersenvy.com

Curious to know why building on the spine is the "right" way. What advantages does it offer? Is there any data to support it?

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Kevin, that's a cheap shot!

It's okay, nobody can come up with any data to support the idea that building on or opposite the spine is the "right" way. It's purely subjective.

What we know insofar as how things actually work, is that the idea that a rod blank “wants” to bend on one particular axis is false. Rod blanks do not want to bend on any axis. Bend it on any axis you wish, and I guarantee that when you release it, it will return to straight. Noodles and ropes want to bend, rod blanks do not.

The only way not to stress a rod blank, is not to bend it. It is the resistance to bending that makes a rod blank do what we want it to do. The amount of material on the compression side of the blank plays the major role in how strongly the blank will resist bending.

A rod blank will flex under less pressure on one axis than another because on one axis you will have the least amount of material on the compression side. This is the least strong orientation for deadlifting and will fail under less load than one built with the maximum amount of material on the compression side.

Putting the straightest axis “up” puts the greatest amount of material on the compression side, which is the side where overload failures take place. So this is the most durable and powerful orientation possible and will withstand a greater load than one built with a lesser amount of material on the compression side.

Twist is a matter of the lever arm effect of the guides, which always trumps any spine effect.

Casting accuracy cannot be affected by rod twist, as twisting around a center axis does not move the blank off the casting plane.

Blanks are made to be used, and are, in any orientation with reasonably similar attributes.

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I think the notion that building on the spine is the right way came from book authors that really didn't know. They said it without facts and it was repeated enough over the years that it just became the way to do things. I have never found any advantage or disadvantage to building on the spine although I'm willing to accept the fact that on the spine gives you a little weaker rod. But even then as the test article found you're only taking a small single digit percentage difference. If building on the spine offered any advantage I would have to think that the rod companies would do it. It only takes a few seconds to find the spine so why wouldn't they? Big money rods like Sage, T&T, etc., etc., don't bother. That tells me that it just doesn't matter.

Gene Bullard said it didn't matter. Dale Clemens said to do it one way in his first book, then flipped and said to do it the other way in his next. Boyd Pfeffier said it was "very" important to build on the spine in his first book, and now says it doesn't make any difference. Take your pick. I no longer worry about it.

Thanks guys this rod will e used only for fishing in trout parks for stockers, so i guess i will build it on the straightest plane.

Please understand that I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other, just saying that it doesn't seem to matter. In fact the only thing that has been proven is that it really doesn't matter.

1st thing fisherman do when he pick a rod from rack store is guide alignment straight or not
2nd thing they will check for guide placement are on spine or not
if a rod don't passed this two things they will put back it back and walk to another rod
this is situation on fishing shop with factory rod
and what will happen to a customer of custom rod if their rod don't match with this criteria?either they will angry and want their money back or they will have bad mouth around you, telling you don't capable for building rod

it simply goes to customer mind, if you can re-educate them about spine is not significant it's OK

If you build on the spine there is little chance the rod will appear straight when you sight down it. The spine is almost never in line with the straightest axis.

Most fishermen have never heard of rod "spine." I doubt 1 in 100 have ever heard the term.

If you run into that 1 in 100, and he wants the rod built on the spine, then do it.

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I agree with Tom I had never heard of spine before.

Tom based on your response above wouldn't it be prudent to build on the spine with the maximum amount of material on the compression side to give it the least chance of breaking under load?

If you build on the spine you won't have the maximum amount of material on the compression side - you'll have the least. And if you build opposite the spine, you still won't have the maximum amount of material on the compression side (in most cases). The softest and stiffest axis are rarely 180 degrees opposite each other.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

The thing to remember is that most of us can't possibly fish on a single axis. The difference in strength or deadlift capability is definite, but slight. Orienting the blank so that the maximum amount of material is on the compression side will give you the strongest possible situation. However, the compression side may vary as the fish swims off to either side. Unless you turn the rod to the fish to keep the rod in that orientation, you lose a bit of what you were trying to gain. For that reason, for all intents and purposes, it just doesn't matter that much. You take the information and use it to what you feel is your best advantage. But there is no right nor wrong way to do this. Again the difference is very slight. The worst thing you can do is worry over it too much.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2012 09:34PM by Tom Kirkman.

The only test I've ever seen a consumer give a fishing rod is the Ugly Stick test and I've seen quite a few fail in the store. They usually just set it back or lay it down and move on to the next aisle. I watched one guy break four in a Bass Pro Shop. When I asked him what he was doing he said that any rod that broke when you bent it double was defective so this was how he made sure he was getting a good one. No idea how many he broke before he found a "good one". I left before the stuff hit the fan with store management.

So do i sight down the and build on whichever axis is straighter?

If you like, yes. That's how most commercial rod companies do it. St. Croix even uses a laser to make sure they get the blank dead up on the straightest axis. I like to put things so the tip and butt are up and the belly is down. This also gives you the most crisp reaction and recovery, but again, on that axis. And we don't fish on a single axis. So you won't get a night and day difference in most cases.

But again, you don't have to do it this way if you prefer something else.

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