Has anyone proved to themselves that adding an extra guide or two (above and beyond the traditional 1 guide per foot plus 1) and using smaller than usual single foot guides added to the performance of the fly rod in that one achieved greater accuracy or distance? I would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

I was so with you right up to "fly rod" and "accuracy and distance".

Now if you wanted to make a case for it increasing the fish fighting ability......or making the rod more efficent at lifting a fish....then yes I think you can make a case.

I'm not good enough with a fly rod to feel I can contribute to the questions you ask. I'll only say weight near the tip matters on all rods and the guides need to be big enough for the fly line/backing knot to pass easily (because I'm only interested in fish that take me into the backing...lol).

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Guides do not contribute to accuracy. The line, fly or lure goes where you throw it.

The more guides used, the more weight the rod blank must carry, making it less efficient and therefore of slower 'speed" (slower reaction and recovery).

The correct size and number of guides is the same as always - use the smallest, lightest and fewest guides that will pass your required line and any connections, hold up to the job at hand, and adequately distribute stress along the rod blank.

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The fly line will follow the trajectory of the tip-top. The guide train has no effect upon the path of the fly line (accuracy). I doubt the difference in friction caused by different guide surfaces or numbers has an appreciable effect upon the distance of the fly cast.

Using small single foot guides reduces the weight added to the blank. As fly rod guides are under the rod, the main thing is distributing the stress as equally as possible along the rod as Tom mentions above. In most cases. fly casting does not involve line passing through the guides, exception being shooting line, so guide size has no effect on distance.

I build only fly rods and use small single foot guides whenever I can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 10:32PM by Phil Erickson.

Rob,
My buess is that if you used standard sized snake fly guides and the standard number of snake fly guides that you would see no difference at all in casting distance and accuracy or ease of use by going to single foot or smaller guides.

But you are certainly welcome to give it a test and report back your results.

Roger

I got in an debate on the internet with Fox Statler several years ago about this. He advocates a lot more running guides on fly rods than traditional thinking. His argument was that line sag between guides caused more drag than the line running straight through the larger number of guides. I thought he was crazy at first, but after researching it, it did make sense. I tried it on one rod I build strictly for distance casting off the beach, along with some other of his weight saving ideas. The rod was a line cannon to start with (Sage TCR) it did seem to help distance, but it also seemed to increase swing weight. Ultimately, I didn't follow it up because I didn't like the look and feel.


I would think is is only effective on fly rods due to the thickness and weight of fly lines as opposed to conventional tackle. I'm not sure it would be of any benefit on spinning or casting rods.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 12:30PM by Tom Kirkman.

There is no appreciable line sag between the guides when the line is actually shooting through them. You cannot increase distance by adding more guides than necessary. I'd refer you to the folks who participate and set most of the international casting distance records - they use fewer guides in almost all instances.

..............

If maximizing distance were my top priority for building a fly rod I would look to results rather than theory. What guides and how many do fly rod distance champions use on their fly rods?

Every time I've reduced guide weight and/or number of guides casting distance and accuracy have improved.
Every rod , every caster.
The reason is two-fold.
The rod responds faster giving higher velocities and flatter trajectories.
The rod requires less effort on the part of the caster allowing geater velocity with easier control of the rod tip.
Accuracy is under the control of the caster but reducing the necessary amount of effort gives much greater fine motor control.
The improved rod response also results in less over-shoot with better damping allowing minor changes as the loop un-furls
The first comment I hear is the rod "feels" lighter, The second is the rod "feels" faster.
Then we start looking at distance improvements and finally loop control.

Polar moment of inertia is in play

Weight times the radius squared and on a fly rod the radius squared is very large.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2012 08:19PM by Eugene Moore.

As discussed above, performance rods like Sage use smaller guides than many, custom built or otherwise.