I've managed to tie my brain into one heck of a knot now! I want to use the KR Concept on my next 7' medium spinning rod. My reel is an OKUMA Trio 30S. Measurements are A:99mm, B:87mm, and C:136mm. Spool face diameter is 42.15mm

My problem is that I am trying to figure out the choke point. I realize that NGC and 27X are different systems and will give different results, but I'm not even sure that either of those systems apply to the KR Concept.

As I understand it, the KR System hinges on the choke point and that your reduction guides (2 or 3) are determined by guide height matched to the spool to choke geometry. Running guides will be samed sized evenly spaced choke to tip.

I'll be using Fuji KL-H for reduction, a Fuji KB or 2 (size 4) for the choker & belly, and 3 or 4 Fuji KT (size 4) for the runners.

In the absence of a formula specific to KR Concept system (or did I just miss it?) I'm calculating choke points between 31.97 and 44.81 inches using the above methods. Surely, the variance can't the great! Can it?? Would somebody please put me back on track?

Thanks
JP

If you're using different systems then the variance can indeed be that great. However, there is only one optimum position for any given reel, guides, line, etc. It might require a bit of time, but if you were set up using each system, and comparing results out on the casting field, you'd know which one delivers the best performance for your specific set up. And fortunately or unfortunately, that's about the only way you'll ever know.

There is one very important aspect to be regarded in any guide system set-up and it's the line being used When I arrived at the 27X factor I did some additional work and discovered that for any given line diameter and the degree of suppleness, the optimum choke point would differ widely. By a foot or more in many cases. I had originally planned to add a second factor so that piece of the puzzle would be included, but the differences in lines and the fact that it would require at least one more step upset the simplicity I intended to provide.

But make no mistake - line size and suppleness is one darn important criteria in terms of both choke and butt guide sizing and placement.

...............

I built two KR concept rods last month using these instructions. I used the 'line the reel up with the edge of the table' method, in lieu of using a computer program with the measurements of the reel. I think this link is applicable because it explains the KR concept as a branch from the NGC, and describes where to go from there.

[anglersresource.net]

By the way, if you're not using a measurements program and want to use the "straight line from the reel" method, I found that putting the reel on the edge of a table and then holding a flashlight above it to look at the shadow really helps with the accuracy; It's hard to be accurate on like a 5 foot scale when you're drawing a straight line from a 1 inch reel piece.

Tom, does larger diameter and stiffer line move the choke point out? thanks, Mick

A KR CONCEPT rod in 5 quick steps:

1) The stripper is located according to the same formula you've been using for NGC...NO CHANGE (NGC using upsweep i.e. table edge, not 27X in this case).

2) Put a KL-H in that stripper position and go ahead and build a whole NGC train (using KL-H guides) down to the choke point. That will usually be four guides, maybe three. (at this point we will assume you have set up a "nice looking" reduction train with good spacing between the selected guides)

3) Remove the last reduction guide (closest to the choke point, not the stripper) and replace it with a KB 4 or 4.5 (matched to runner size). This is now your new Rapid Choke point.

4) Use a string or a straight edge to shoot a new line from the top of the stripper to the top of the KB you just positioned. Remove all other reduction train guides.

5) Position a KL5.5H on the new line (top edge touching the line just like an NGC set-up) and add one more KL-H of proper height and position between the 5.5 and the stripper. You need to use the 5.5...trust me on this. (In reels with steep upsweep the 5.5 may fall too close to the new choke point. (You may want to work to add a little space here. We will position a 5.5 as close as 4 or so inches to the choke)

6) DONE. KR CONCEPT


The entire reduction train on a KR Rod (3 guides) will weigh less than the stripper in a standard NGC configuration. These rods are so incredibly light and sensitive, especially in the top two thirds you just can't imagine it until you build one and try it. Adding a running guide adds power and they cast smoother, a little further and more accurately, too.

I built my KR on a 6'6" St Croix blank, and I have a factory St Croix rod with the same specs, so it's a good way to compare the KR concept vs. the factory guide placement. The casting distance on the two is about the same, but the accuracy of the KR is much better. The big gain is that the KR is much lighter, and I think that helps with the sensitivity.

Michael,

Generally the more supple the line (smaller diameter mono or braid) the closer the choker guide can be. The stiffer the line (larger diameter mono) the further out it needs to be. You can prove this to yourself by setting up with any of the above methods, then using the same reel, swap out spools using different line. Obviously, lighter more supple lines are going to cast further anyway, but you'll soon learn that the choker guide location that is optimum for say, 8lb mono, is not optimum for 15lb mono.

The only way to truly optimize choker guide location is by trial and error, and such trial and error might still only net you a 1% to 2% gain, assuming you're starting with a good set up and decent choke guide location to start with. I use 27X because it works with about anything and even time spent moving it up or back for various lines is only going to net me that little 1% to 2% increase. It all comes down to how much effort you want to put into coaxing every little bit of performance out of your set up that you can.

..............

Jim

I don't really want to put size 4.5 guides on a 12' surf rod I am building so do you think your method would work using say size 8 guides in lieu of the 4.5's and a size 10 in lieu of the 5.5?

Thanks

Tim