Do you Tom or anyone else know when thread weaving on custom fishing rods first began? was it in the 1950's, or was it a lot earlier than then? who was the first person to weave a design on a rod? what was the design? Are there photographs? Any history information on this subject, i would very much enjoy hearing about. Thank you, Steve.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)

I would think if anyone had an idea, Doc would. He's been doing this stuff since the 60's. hopfully he's the one who "invented" it.

Billy is right I have been at this for a while but unfortunately I can not take credit for inventing anything in rod building. I was taught much of my rod building by my father (he worked part time for a tackle shop while recovering from injuries incured in WWII) and Jeannie Harrington or Harrington/Harnell Rods. I suspect that weaving was it beginning in the 40s since that is when tubular fiberglass rods hit the market. The first weaves I have knowledge of were letters for names or monograms. I can tell you this that when I was coming up in rod building you couldnt find anyone giving out free information on any of the artistic parts of wraping. I remember getting mail(the snail type) and calls from people I was helping learn saying there were some folks in the south that didnt care much for me for giving out techniques and help. I can tell you though, until the 70s color change weaving was not seen much and nothing like the scenes and action weave that are so prevalent today.

Actually before 1900

Hi Kerry,
A bit of expansion would be good.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Doc,it's usually the people who stink at building rods who complain most about others sharing information. lol.

Wow that is really interesting Kerry. I couldnt imagine and thread art form on fishing rods prior to the tubular stuff that actuall came from tank antennas. I think before that there was just steel/mettel rods and Bamboo types for fly fishing and Calcuttas for the ocean work. None of which lended well to art but then there is always someone looking to dress up just about anything. Kerry can you give us some sites where you got your info so us curious types can check it out. I would be sooo cool to see artwork from the 1900s


PS. I just did a search and found some interesting info. Hey I be the Egytians had some artsy tools. [www.madehow.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2012 11:28AM by James(Doc) Labanowski.

Just read some of that Doc, quite interesting, I tried google, plenty on carpet weaving, basket weaving, hair weaving. Zilch on thread weaving other than the usual where to buy a loom, patterns etc..

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)

Doc
I had a friend who was a Master rod builder/Weaver who wrote an article for the old original Rodcrafters booklet/journal that gave me a start at "Color Change" weaving who has since passed away (Arthur Durham) who had some very old Bamboo rods he got from an estate that were made in the late 1800's. Art said there were very obvious "Color Change" weaving on them. He also had some very old stanchions that were very very old from China from a ship/boat that had the weaving on it that predated everything. A little about Art Durham, He started his military career in Korea as a Sniper than shifted to Army Air. He was a helicopter pilot in Viet Nam and shot down a MiG that was regularly strafing an Australian position. He later married an Australian he met there. If you have an old copy of Mc cleans (sp) fishing encyclopedia and look up sharks, you will see a young man bending over the gunnel with a fish with the back end missing and a great white with his head out of the water with its mouth open below it. Hope all is going good for you, rocky and family.
Kerry

Thanks for the info. Were there any pictures? do you still have the issue? It would be great to revive it.

No pictures Doc, Art told me he had these rods on loan to him from the estate so, I believe, he could examin them. I know he wanted to buy them, but don't know if he ever did. If so they went to his heirs.
Kerry

Kerry,
I have a treatise on Weaving from Art and in the contents it stated that the rod in question is now in his private collection. I have a binder of Arts' schematic of the Master weaving loom and bench he designed, he was quite an artist and the schematics were of great quality with some of the best attention to detail I have seen. Art did pass and shared his techniques in reference to Weaving with many. As Doc testifies, there were several in the South (Texas) who held their cards close to their chest, sharing was not an option, of course if you had the Benjamins the mystery was unraveled. Great question and subsequent replys.

Pat Barnard

Kerry,
I investigated my Art Durham guide and it claims the rods had a date of 1881. One with a Chinook salmon and the other a Rainbow trout, he stated that they were done in silk as well. Hope this helps.

Pat Barnard

Att Tom Kirkman,
As a lot of older builders don't get on the net perhaps you could put something in Rodmaker requesting info on this subject. I'm sure Doc or Steve Mcleod would collect that info and pass it on. Seems things started happening a lot earlier than expected and probably only a few of the older guys would have info or possibly pictures. Would add some interesting info on rodbuilding history if a bit of stuff turned up.
Would also being very interesting if those early rods could be located and some pictures posted. Someone must know where they are.
Stuff like that needs to be found, tracked and hopefully purchased and displayed in a museum if possible. We need to keep track of rodbuilding history and not just kept in garages or memory.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 03:08AM by Col Chaseling.

Yes Col, that would be the holy grail! Just like to say special thanks to kerry and pat, really enjoyed reading your posts, great story and information, hope we still hear more on this subject; Steve.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 08:11PM by Steve Mcleod.

I wonder if the material that I have on Weaving from Art would be something that Rodmaker would include in one of its additions or placed in the Library for all to garner the information. As I was looking thru the literature I did not see any Copyright claims, of course one would not want to get into a litigation battle over this. Maybe additional research on this is needed.

Pat Barnard

Frankly I felt that since Art sent it to me to proof for him, it was still ART's work and should be his say so or now the family's say so if it to be published in any way. Just like if I gave one of my patterns to somebody and after all my hard work I see it among other patterns for sale on some site. Believe me, that has happened and it is dispicable. I know some would like to see it, but that should not get in the way of morality where we only ask the question if is copy righted. He is not here to say yae or nae.so now it is up to his heirs! Do the honorable thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 01:49PM by Kerry Hansen.

Doc,
PM me with your address in reference to the items you requested above and I will get them to you. BTW, the flounder you recently completed is great.

Pat

Copy right varies greatly from country to country I was a photographer before cancer and my stuff is covered for 50yrs and is also passed down to my heirs should I kick it. Aussie law is similar to USA law so anything +50yrs should be fair game which means prior to 1962 currently.

This is only from memory and regarding photographs there is also a difference when it comes to the reason for the distribution that throughs up some strange precidents over rights. It's a real mine field I remember seeing one of my photos in a magazine which had really low circulation after seeking legal advice it was not worth persuing, If the mag had of asked I would have given it to them to use but the internet makes it far to easy to to just grab others work and really hard to enforce just take a look at the youtube clips using rights protected music in the background. People just don't know or care so they d/load and use it. If you can find the rights holder or the hiers, its just a matter of getting a release signed outlining the purpose I would say in this case it wouldn't be much of a problem if you can track them down. They would probably love having something published from thier relative, my kids would.

Regards
Mark

Mark,
Thanks for the time and response. The information on Arts' treatise on Color change weaving and subsequent building of a weaving loom are great. I understand the Rod building community wanting to garner the enclosed information to advance in this thread art form. I have had this 'manual" for several years and from time to time still read it for its enjoyment. I am in the process of contacting Arts' heirs in reference to this action. I think the last sentence in your response mirrors how I feel. I will make available what I uncover. Take care.

Pat