A few years ago I built an 8’Austin fly rod 4 wt. (It’s still my favorite rod).
At that time snake guides where in, a few years later I removed the snakes
and put on single foot guides as they where in, a few years later I removed
the single foot guides and put on ceramic guides as they where in, a few years later, this year, I removed the ceramics and put on minima 4 guides.
So, I’m looking at recoil, the properties seem to be worth a try?
My conclusion so far is that all setups caught fish equally well.

Guess my question is has any one been through this array of guides and came up with
any conclusion???

mega thanks, stan yerger

Yes,
My conclusion is that the snake guides work better than any of the others and are also the least expensive.
Ater trying them all, I have taken all of the other guides off of the rod and have put snake guides back on for the best feel.
Roger

I am back to snake guides as well...don't know why...just am.

Me too. REC recoil snakes are the most trouble free guides on fly rods. On light rods, REC single foots.

With that said, all fly rods I make will have a TFST top.

Drew

I have single foot guides on one of mine and snakes on my shorter one. I honestly can't tell any difference, but then I don't fly fish very often at all either.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

I went to single foot ceramics years ago and will never go back. No wear on tips. Can't tell any diffeence in casting.

I have mixed feelings. I like ceramic single foots on the 6wt that I use for bigger freshwater trout (20+inches). There seems to be less wear on the line and the guides, and there is less friction while fighting a fish. On my 4 weight, I have single foot wire guides, and that rod casts very crisply. I use snakes on bamboo rods, for the sake of tradition, but also find that snakes pass connections easier than single foots (wire or ceramic).

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

Would the answers change any if you were building a fly rod for big powerful fish capable of ripping off 300 yard runs of 30 braided line backing?

One of these I'll get around to building a 12 weight I have. Needless to say I won't be building it for trout and salmon.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Stanford,
I prefer to combine single and snakes.
I use light wire titanium on the tip guides then change to steel snakes for the mid and butt areas.
The rod tip doesn't require heavy guides due to it's low spring rate.
The weight difference can be felt in rod response and casting effort.
The mid and butt areas recieve higher load due to rod stiffness and snakes put less wear on the fly line.
They are also more durable and less problematic along with looking traditional.

Eugene Moore

This is an interesting discussion.

I went to Alaska this year for the Kenai Sockeye run and then back earlier this month to fish for Cohos. Both times I took several 8wt rods I built over the last year, and my Z Axis I got 2 years ago.

There is no question, that the all ceramic guide rod fished the "smoothest" especially with a fish running and taking line. Unfortunately, you have to be very careful with the guides as they are easily bent. I posted about this experience previously. If you could always fish in ideal conditions, it would be the way to go.

The rod that I ended up fishing with the most, was built with a ceramic tip (Fuji TFST) with REC running guides. That was 90% as nice as the all ceramic guide and way less troublesome. My conclusion is that most of the benefit of ceramic guides on a fly rod comes from the ceramic tip. Someone correct me if wrong, but that one thing made the most difference. My least favorite rod of the trip was the Z Axis, which surprised me, as it is factory built and I have really liked fishing it previously. It's likely selection bias in favor of the rods I made myself!

Drew

About twelve years ago I got introduced to the concept of using single foot guides guides on a fly rod. Through some contacts I acquired 2 Loomis GLX 10 wt fly rods, one I stripped down and set the rod up with TiSIC fly rod guides from FUJI...being young and bold I even added weight to the rod with a "Jets" crosswrap. I compared the two rods out on the grass in my backyard with a 10w forward line (I think). Now, I aint no Stu Apte, but based on what I experienced, not only did my single foot set up throw the line further...but it the line "sounded" beautiful running through the single foots. My little backyard test convinced me that single foots are the way to go.

The "fly rod" is a rod that will be hard to deviate from its TRADITIONAL snake guides...an angler looking at a fly rod with single foots will look at it as being "weird" and "stupid looking"...just as the spiral wrap and micro guides turn off others in the non flyfishing world.

This is my story based on throwing a 10 wt line....if I was throwing a 4wt line to fish that would be considered a quarry smaller than "baits" Ive used...I'd be the guy that would buy the bamboo with snakes out of tradition...Issac Walton stuff.

Tradition is a tough nut to crack.

MJ

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

I wonder why guys (ie. Steve Rajeff,Ruairi Costello) going for world class distance records never made the move to single foots? In a competitive world of that nature I am sure the transition would have been made by now if it helped gain even a couple feet.

Maybe the rules in distance casting have snake guides as a requirement?

There is very little friction between the line and guides on the cast, so ceramics don't necessarily increase casting distance. They do quieten the sound of the line passing through the guides and often reduced friction when fighting a fish. But on the cast, they make little difference. Friction is creased when you have pressure forcing two surfaces against each other. There is very little of that going on during a cast.

It's also worth noting that snake guide met with a great deal of skepticism when they first appeared on fly rods, attempting to move aside the traditional hook and loop guides. There will come a day when snake guides will also pass into history.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2011 10:01AM by Tom Kirkman.

Im always wrong...why bother adding my 2 cents.

MJ

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

Im always wrong...why bother adding my 2 cents.

MJ

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

Nobody said you were wrong. What you experienced is what you experienced. But you did not use the same blank to make the comparison. You used two of the same model blank, which may not have been verbatim - few blanks are.

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Never said you were wrong either. Just pointing out that in the super competive world of distance fly rod castng and production rods, none have made the transition to single foots, or ceramics for that matter..

Don't follow what is in -- Build a rod for the performance

Which guides did you like the best Lightest ?? You buy every new thing that comes out It will cost you

Bill - willierods.com

It might also make you money. If you happen across something that helps you build a better rod, then it was a wise investment that could lead to increased sales in the future.

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