I thought I posted this question before, but I can't find in my posts. I apologize if I posed this question before, I just want to be sure.

Will humidity bother the drying of the finish on my guides? I've always been afraid to apply guide finish in the hot summer months. Will air conditioning bother the finish?

If you're using epoxy, no. Humidity has no effect on the set or cure of a 100% solids product. Epoxy does not cure by evaporation.

If you're using something like Permagloss or Lumaseal, then yes, it will have some effect, but not what you may imagine. These are moisture curing urethanes and will actually set more quickly when there is more moisture in the air.

..........

IF humidity were a factor in the use of two-part epoxy ... we would SURE be in trouble down in Florida. You can wring water out of the air, almost every month of the year. Temperature is the only factor - warmer temperatures equal shorter pot life and curing, cooler temperatures are the opposite.

Not for nothing but I find that when hot and Humid finish seems to set Fast
I just got some Afcote for the months that are hot and humid and it does seem to take longer to set -- and fully cure --But seems to not dry as hard ( thumb nail test )
I always use Thread master but also find it is or most finishes are better in Cooler temperatures

Bill - willierods.com

"Hot" is the key word. Epoxies are temperature sensitive.

.........

I spoke to several of the Makers of Finish, because we have serious trouble here in West Virginia on certain days, if we have a low Humidity it is around 87% in the Summer, it is not actually the humidity what bathers the finish, it is the Air pressure.
Example on bad days some products will fish eye immidiatly after I apply them. Some Makers told me I can not use there product on those dog days.
Mark

mark crouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I spoke to several of the Makers of Finish,
> because we have serious trouble here in West
> Virginia on certain days, if we have a low
> Humidity it is around 87% in the Summer, it is not
> actually the humidity what bathers the finish, it
> is the Air pressure.
> Example on bad days some products will fish eye
> immidiatly after I apply them. Some Makers told me
> I can not use there product on those dog days.
> Mark


Now that's interesting!

I spoke with both Roger Seiders from Flex Coat and Ralph OQuinn from Trondak at the last Expo event and both told me flat out that humidity would have zero effect on their finishes or the setting and curing times of those finishes. The interesting thing is that Ralph mentioned that humid air is usually hot air so guys often mistake the quicker setting as being a result of high humidity when it is really the hotter temp that does it.

If it matters, I'm using Thread Master Lite.

I have tried most of the two-part epoxy finishes on the market ... out of curiosity, more than anything else. Almost without exception, they all performed just fine. The ONLY place more humid than Florida is the bottom of a swimming pool - and we have days that isn't necessarily the case. I have worked in all temperature ranges, humidity levels, barometric pressure levels, etc. without issue.

My suggestion would be to pick a finish (just one), learn it, practice using it and, above all, stick with it AND the exact same mixing/application process.

if you can Cool Off the area where you finish do so it will help to slow the set time

If not mix a smaller amount and do half the rod --- then mix another batch and finish

The lighter finishes tend to set slower in the heat.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2011 08:15AM by bill boettcher.

Epoxy will cure under water.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Hi Bruce
if I use on Thread Master Light on the Dog days, it takes almost 30 Hours to cure, my finishing room is Temperature controlled, and to Jim we have a house in West Palm and the Humidity is nothing down there compared to up here in the Sumer, West Virginia is nothing but an hughe Leaf Forrest, I also have been working in the Last 37 years with many different finishes, and I have to say they all React different to climate change, the factory of the finishes it self told me it will effect it. The Two named Finish maker also say the finish has no Shelf Life, and that is Bull, some of the Maker have the Shelf Life printed on the Bottle.

Mark,

Is it the makers or the rebottlers/sellers that are telling you this?

..............

What I have posted below was taken directly from the System Three website in their FAQs section. It addresses epoxy and temperature, humidity and shelf life. Take it for what it's worth. Interesting to note that many of their instructions are identical to what has appeared here from many rod builders over the years.

Product FAQS
The Part A resin has hardened and turned white. Can I still use it?
Yes. The white solid or haziness is a mass of resin crystals. Crystallized resin will not cure properly. These can be melted by heating the container to 120°F. The resin will clear up and be as good as new.

The Part B hardener is darker in color than when I bought it. Can I still use it?
Probably. Hardeners yellow and darken over time due to contact with air and sunlight. This does not affect their performance. To satisfy yourself do a small test and make sure it cures properly.

What is the shelf life of your epoxy resin products?
All solvent-free epoxies have essentially unlimited shelf lives so long as they are stored in sealed containers. The resin may crystallize or the hardener may darken but this does not affect its performance. If the material is more than a year old do a test to satisfy yourself that it cures properly.

Can I put polyester gelcoat over cured epoxy?
In general, polyester resins won't cure properly or bond well to epoxy resin products without a "tie-coat" barrier resin in between. System Three SB-112 resin system can be used as a tie coat in between epoxy laminating or coating resins, and polyester laminating or gelcoat resins. Using this resin allows you to gelcoat an epoxy-built or epoxy-repaired boat.

Can I color System Three® epoxy products?
Yes. The preferred method is with System Three paste pigments. You can add these up to 10% by weight of the Part A resin. You can also use universal paint colorants from the paint or hardware store, but only up to 2% by weight of the resin.

My epoxy resin is taking too long to cure. How can I speed it up?
The only way to speed the cure of our epoxy resin products, once they've been applied, is to heat the room or the area that your project is in. Every 18°F increase in temperature cuts the time it takes for the resin to cure in half.

Which laminating resin is easiest to use for fiberglassing?
There are two main things to consider: how the resin wets out the cloth and how well is fills the weave. The thinner resins, like Clear Coat, will wet cloth easier, but take more coats to fill the weave. With thicker resins, like System Three General Purpose, the opposite is true.

Will the ultimate strength of an epoxy coating be affected if it gets cold while it's curing?
No. As long as the epoxy is completely cured, the physical properties will not be affected.

What solvent can I use to clean up cured epoxy resin products?
Cured epoxy systems are very chemical resistant, and need to be removed with an epoxy-type paint stripper containing methylene chloride, or by a combination of heat for softening followed by scraping. Uncured epoxy resins and hardeners can be cleaned up with ketones, alcohols, or lacquer thinner. White vinegar will clean up unmixed resin components.

Will System Three® epoxy products damage polystyrene or urethane foam?
No. Our coating and laminating resins are designed to go directly over solvent-sensitive substrates without any fear of softening or "melting" them.

Can I stain over cured epoxy resin?
No. Any wood that's been coated with epoxy will be sealed, and when it's cured it won't accept stain. Stain wood first; then apply epoxy resin.

What stains can I use before applying epoxy?
Dye stains are preferable because they leave no surface film. But in general, any stain can be used so long as it is completely cured before applying mixed epoxy resin. However, it is prudent to do a test by staining some scrap and then applying epoxy. Check for appearance and bonding.

What can I use as a material that epoxy won't stick to?
Epoxies will not stick to mold-release compounds recommended for use with epoxy, and polyethylene sheeting, like disposable paint tarps and sandwich bags. Epoxy does not stick to the shiny side of packaging tape or paraffin wax.

I made a small batch and after a week it has not cured. What happened?
It is difficult to measure a batch of resin and hardener less than three fluid ounces by volume. If you need to make a small batch, measure it by weight. System Three offers a small digital scale perfect for this use.

I made a large batch and found a few areas that are still sticky after most of the surface is cured hard. What happened?
The material was probably not thoroughly mixed and unmixed material was scraped from the container onto the surface. When mixing always be sure to mix from the bottom to the top and scrape the sides of the container and the stick. Experienced users dump and scrape the mixed material from the first container into a second and then mix again. This totally avoids the problem described above.

I made a large batch and found a few areas that are still sticky after most of the surface is cured hard. Can I fix it?
Yes. First, scrape off what you can. Then pour or wipe a suitable solvent on the surface. Wear a respirator or provide proper ventilation when working with solvents. Wipe or scrub the resin surface. This will remove residual uncured resin but won't harm any cured resin. Sand the underlying cured resin and apply a fresh coat properly measured and thoroughly mixed. Note: Over bare wood the fresh coat of resin will need to be worked into the wood with a stiff-bristle brush to mix any residual uncured material into the fresh material. This will ensure that the fresh coat will adhere properly to the wood.

I have material that hasn’t cured after four days in a warm room. Can I apply fresh resin over the top and have the whole thing cure hard?
No. If the older material has stopped curing, applying more epoxy won't start it up again. The uncured resin must be removed and new material applied to that surface.

Can I use the hardener from one of your epoxy systems with the resin from another?
No. Epoxy resin systems are two-part products where each part is designed to go with the other.

Can I apply mixed epoxy to a piece of wood and then bend it without cracking the epoxy? Yes, while the cured epoxy may be stiffer than an equal thickness of wood, the epoxy coating is much thinner and can be bent further than the wood it coats without cracking.

I laminated some bent wood strips with epoxy adhesive and clamped them overnight. When I found them the next day the adhesive had cured hard but several strips had sprung open. How can I keep them together?
Leave the clamps on a full 24 hours. The epoxy had not adequately cured when the clamps were removed. The force caused by the bent wood trying to straighten was sufficient to cause the uncured epoxy to fail. It opened up some time after you removed the clamps, but the epoxy continued to cure between the time the clamps were removed and when you saw the laminations the next day.
To avoid the above problem I left the clamps on for three days but the epoxy adhesive still failed at the interface between the strips. The surface appeared grainy or sugary. Why?
Likely you used too much clamping pressure. The clamps squeezed most of the epoxy out of the joints and the wood absorbed what was left leaving a starved joint. A grainy feel at the interface is symptomatic of a starved epoxy glue joint.

How much clamping pressure do I use for an epoxy glue joint?
Epoxy adhesives, being gap-filling glues, need only enough clamping to close the joint. Unlike other glues epoxy does not require high pressure to make a proper glue joint.

Will epoxy resin adhesives bond all materials together?
Epoxy resin adhesives will bond all woods, aluminum and glass well. It does not bond to Teflon, polyethylene, polypropylene, nylon, or Mylar. It bonds poorly to polyvinyl chloride, acrylic and polycarbonate plastics. The only way to tell if an epoxy will bond to a material is to try it. Generally, epoxy adhesives are the best choice for bonding dissimilar materials together. If epoxy bonds to Material A and to Material B it will bond the two materials to each other. The best thing to do is to try it and see for yourself.

Hi Tom
It was the Maker, the person who mixed it up, one guy wanted me to try his finish, but as I told him how bad our Humidity and Air pressure is here in the sumer, he told not to use it. Every body will say there stuff has no shelf life etc. because they want to sale it. I had Finish where the Resin Crystalized and I disolved it, but how often can you do so ( I dont think to often) I had Hardener which turned colors, thats not good either because it will not turn clear. How can they say there is no shelf life? I do not want to step on any bodies toes, but lets be honest, there is no perfect product for every one, it just depends where you live. I asume every one knows how to messure correctly, so how can there be a difference in drying time and settling if the Air pressure and Humidity does not effect it. My Favorite finish coat is Classic Coat it is Crystal clear, I cant use it here, but I use it in Washington, now try to explain that Phenomenon.
Best Regards Mark Crouse

Mark,

I think a date stating a definite shelf life is a matter of selling more product. I'm unaware of any epoxy formulator that claims an epoxy will degrade over time. Resin will indeed crystalize but can be returned to normal with heat as often as needed with no ill effects. All hardeners will amber over time but this does not change the set, cure or performance of the product. This is why makers say there is no appreciable shelf life.

Because epoxy is a 100% solids product, neither air pressure nor humidity have any effect on it. If you do a search under Ralph O'Quinn's name here, you can read his previous posts on amine blush, which can occur if a certain ratio of CO2 and moisture are present, but even amine blush does not affect the set or cure time and can simply be wiped off with a rag after the cure is complete. It does not affect the characteristics of the final product.

I have no idea who the maker was that told you these things, but if you'll put in a call to West Systems, System 3, etc., I think you'll find that they'll tell you that neither air pressure nor humidity will have any effect on the set or cure time of an epoxy.

There is the chance, of course, that the maker you mention is not producing a 100% solids epoxy. I know there are a couple of exceptions, such as Klass Kote, that are actually a solvent based epoxy type paint. Those type products would indeed be affected by humidity. It's always important when discussing these things to state whether we're talking about a 100% epoxy solids casting resin (which comprises most epoxy thread wrap finishes) or some type of epoxy paint. There is a big difference between the two.

....................

Things can be taken out of context. Sometimes folks don't understand all aspects of how weather works.

There are times when things like dewpoint come into play. It would be a bad idea to apply epoxy on a hot (outdoor) surface shortly before sundown when it is expected to cool off rapidly. Care may be needed in the morning to bring a large thermal mass to ambient air temperatures before starting work too.

In general these things don't bother rod builders much. Still I think the occasonal "bad luck" causes some of the notions that some cling to.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Well, guys, I've been following this discussion and now I'm confused as to whether I should try and finish my rod. The outside temps will probably be in the low 80s. I can get the inside air temp down into the 70s with a small air conditioner I have in my kitchen window. Should I go ahead and finish?

Bruce,
Don't over think it and drive your self crazy. There are people here from every state and many countries that are applying finish in every weather condition that you can imagine with no problems whatsoever. Temperature can effect cure time which has no effect on the quality of the finish. People apply finish in Alaska in the winter and in South America in the summer. Jim Gamble finishes a bunch of rods in that swimming pool we call Florida.. Just apply the finish and go to bed LOL!!!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!