So I'm turning a Batson XSB822.5 into a casting rod and having issues with guide spacing. Its a fast action spinning blank for dropshot. 6'10"

Currently I have my size 10 stripper at 48" from tip. With the following.

size 8 double foot at 8" away from stripper
size 8 double foot at 8" from previous guide
size 6 double foot at 6" from previous guide
size 6 double foot at 4.5" from previous guide
size 6 double foot at 4" from previous guide
then 4 size 6 single foots 3.5" apart till the tip top.

After static testing I cant get the line to not touch the blank under full load. I'm at 10 guides already. If I space them down I'm looking at 11 guides plus tip. Can that be right?

I've tried 4 static tests and still can get it. Hoping someone here will drop some 411 and help a brotha out!

I just built one and this is the spacing I settled with: 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 3.5, 4, 4, 4.5, 8, 12-3/8. Guides are five # 6, two #7, one # 10 and one 12. The stripping guide is 471/4" from tip. All are single foot except the 12 is a double. I used static deflection as well as casting trials to get optimum results. I use this here on the Texas coast and it has become my bread and butter blank. It is in the casting configuration. Great for plastic and small tops. I have been making them on the split grip style utilizing Burl cork. The Burl is a bit heavier but it is more custom and holds its own to countless hours of use. Good luck.

Pat Barnard

So only 9 guides on yours? I'm new so I wonder if the stripper guide being a 12 helps where I am using a 10? Your also slightly further from the reel than I am by about 3/4". Thank you for the info, you've given me some things to think about!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2011 06:43PM by Adam Curtis.

buy a bunch of 4s and dont use anything else. You'll probably need about 9 guides. Static test to get the spacing.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2011 08:51AM by roger wilson.

Roger
I know that a lot of guys allow the line to touch the blank but I have yet heard of anyone saying it was allright for the line to go under the blank. Where did you hear this? or read it please.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Not sure where you heard about the line going under the blank, Roger. Most of us using 3mm or 4mm guides on bass rods are letting the line touch the blank. I like 10 guides on a 7' blank, and some guys like 9. IMHO, all those DF guides are going to dog that blank down.

Chuck

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Adam
First off unless your a canuk you can't use EH? but as chuck stated you are usin way too many df guides. Follow Alex' s post. Buy a buch of size 4's and go att it.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Sorry for being confused but how will 10 guides using size 4's keep the line off the blank better than what I have listed? I understand weight issues with the DF but not how it helps keep line off the blank by going with 4's. Are you suggesting upwards of 12 guides? Sorry for my confusion

if you measure the distance from the blank to the bottom of the ring on a SF6 and a SF4 you might be surprised how little difference there is. Just depends on the brand and models.

The height of the bottom of the ring is what impacts your spacing under load. I'm guessing 9 but on some 7' you may want 10 and the handle length will also impact this number.

I don't advise line going below the blank. I have no idea where Roger got that. But I'm still waiting for him to let us know how many micro rods he has built and with which guides. I believe we are still waiting on some results of his from an earlier post regarding micros.

If you let the line just lightly touch the blank under full load you really won't find an issue on water. You don't often fully load a bass blank under real fishing conditions anyway.

There are some nuances to all this, but a search on spacing, particularly micro spacing will give you plenty of reading and a lot of viewpoints.

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Really appreciate the help Alex. I think I grasp it now. It goes without saying but your saving me a bunch of time and helping educate a new builder so I don't ask this same question in the future. Thanks man. After 4 static tests I was beginning to get frustrated.

Adam,

Several years ago an RX8+S822.5 was my first build. It is a spiral wrapped casting rod, and I'll share the guide spacing Steve Gardner gave me for that build, as it should work well with a conventional setup as well. From the tip top (spaces between guides in cm) 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 24. My guide sizes were 6mm double foot butt guide and the rest were single foot flies in 5, 4, and 3s (Batson Micros, the only ones available at the time) to the tip. Give this recipe a try, and see how it works out.

FWIW, I had a hard time when I started out with static testing and getting things right, especially when stating with a recipe. So, I started taking a simplistic approach and put on the tip top, and tie a weight to the tip top. Then I thread the line through the guides I think I need with a couple extra of the smallest size running guides, ran the line through the tip top and tie on a small weight. Then I start at the tip of the rod and work back (I might be able to get by with one fewer guide if I would start at the butt and work forward, but the results I get keep me happy.). I use the same criteria to place each guide, and for micros that means the line just touching the blank between itself and the next guide when I load the rod. With larger guides, that means keeping the line off of the blank by the same amount between each pair of guides. I found that placing one guide at a time reduces the level of complexity, as you don't have to worry about readjusting multiple guides every time you make a change. You simply use one criteria, and end up with a line path that follows the blank nicely. I also treat the butt guide just like any other guide, and let it fall where it may, but with larger 10 or 12mm butt guides, you should have an idea of where you want it to end up (say 21-27" from the levelwind on the reel). I usually end up between 22" and 24" with 6mm butt guides on casting rods.

The light bulb went off for me on the one guide at a time approach when Bill Stevens wrote to Bob McKamey, in jest I believe, to place one guide, drink a beer, think about, place another guide and repeat until the guide train is set. I'm pretty sure the specific post is in one of the M&M threads. The approach made sense to me, and I've run with it ever since.

Joe

Alex is right on the money ! Do as he suggested and you can't go wrong. You will absolutely love that rod.
On that blank built casting , I would probably have to use 10 guides because she will have a short grip, 8.5 " probably.

J.B.Hunt
Bowling Green, KY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2011 12:33AM by Jay Hunt.

Good info, I have a? on the grip length, when someone puts down the size or length of grip, does he mean from the butt of the rod to the top of the reel seat? or bottom of the reel seat?

Roger Wilson thank you for your edit!

If others have difficulty finding the thread on this forum discussing Line Touch touch this link will work:

[rodbuilding.org]

Lorenzo.

Grip lengths are measured from the butt to the back edge of the reel seat for baitcasting rods. Quite important. Many shove out seats fo improve balance. This is a trick of production builders to improve the "balance" of rack rods to increase sales. Long rear grips are known to cost tournament bass anglers fish - interference with clothing and body at critical times during landing are known to be a severe disadvantage. Gary Klien uses eight foot flip sticks with 8.5" rear grips.

JB check! Same here even on the rear grip.

I took 3 of the DF off and added fly guides. 10 total guides and no line touch. Thank you again Alex and everyone else who took the time to help out!

Hi Adam and sorry to confuse you but when you say you get some line touch on the blank when under full load, what load are you using and what line rating blank is it......?? If I have a 8-10lb line class blank I will only make sure the line doesn't touch the blank at 5lb or half of the maximum line class .....so with this 8-10lb blank, I will only check the line doesn't touch the blank with a 5lb test...alot of people think that you should be able to break the line without the line touching the blank but in my opinion, that is definately wrong, we should only fish with only 1/3 B.S so half is ample......

Adam can you tell me your email address .? i have a solution for you which is easily understood..i think you maybe doing the static test slightly wrong.

I'm basically just pulling on the line till the rod bends to a point I'm comfortable with. A nice natural curve in the rod, I'm not trying to put the tip to the grip. ;) - Guess I called it full load because I felt thats where the rod would be under fighting conditions.

Would love any information you have though. Always trying to learn more. The responses have been great!

contact@anglerspursuit.com

Thanks Owen!

Adam;
I have used that rod (bait caster) set up for drop shotting for over 4 years now.

If you follow Joe Vanfossen's advice,(except for the beer), including layout, spiral wrap, and guide size. you will end up with a rod that out performs virtually any other setup you can configure. And end up casting further then you'd expect, be lighter then you expect, and more sensitive then you had hoped for.