I know that there are some metal, as well as materials specialists who read this forum.
Any idea on the calculations required to determine the " strength" requirements for different type guides?

i.e.
Spinning guides, light medium heavy?
Casting guides, light, medium, heavy, roller guides?

I would think that the actual strength requirements are far less than what guides are actually sized and made. But, how does one come up with a realistic calculation for what is really needed for long rod life as well as non failure in a fishing situation.

Take care
Roger

In salt water a key factor in the future strength of a guide is its ability to resist corrosion. Coatings, coverings, and platings don't last, and most "stainless steel" isn't.

Bend strength is important also. Regardless of the metal selected, designers have to ensure the metal and design is capable of handling the bend from the foot to the neck.

I've had quite a few production rods (all the same brand with same guides) that were only used in freshwater come in the shop lately where the guide was sheered off right at that bend. Foot still in the wrap and 100% in place. Once you've seen several rods with multiple guides broken the same way - that tells me something isn't correct.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 09:14AM by Alex Dziengielewski.

At some point a manufacturer will realize that guide frames made from any sort of metal is about 50 years behind the times.

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The alternative would be graphite or some other composite (kevlar, etc)?

Yes, some sort of glass filled nylon such as the better seats are made from.

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It still has to be flexible right? I know that I have seen some of the same problems described by Alex D. with certain guide manufacturers.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

Daiwa tried this back in the early 1990's with some measure of success. They had the right idea, they just didn't settle on a very good frame design. Pure Fishing was working on such guides just prior to being sold a few years ago. Such guides are impervious to corrosion, can be made highly flexible yet extremely durable. The trick has always been to keep a rigid ceramic ring in a flexible frame. However, if the design limits the flex to the feet or lower part of the guide, mated to a rigid upper, that's not a problem.

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Roger,

You've got mail.

Joe

I was actually thinking about this last night on my drive back to NC. What would happen if they were to utilize something like nylon and coat it with something like the nano coating that Garcia is utilizing?

Tom Kaufmann

Doesn't really have to be coated with anything. The problem is that the initial set up cost would be pretty steep, requiring an individual mold for each model and size guide. A company could easily put a million bucks into molds for just one series of guides. But it'll happen in due course.

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Doesn't UV degrade nylon?

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Probably want FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic). Ring retention could be done is it is with plastic pipe fitting adaptors, an insert molded in with an external metallic band to hold it in place.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

UV degrades everything. But it's a non-issue. Such guides would outlive you.

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Hello folks,
I've been following this thread all day. While I admit that there are functional deficiencies with metallic frames, I have yet to hear of a suitable replacement. In the fifty years I have been building fishing rods I watched the evolution of the components go from very practical to highly beautiful components. I remember when I first saw a graphite reel seat on a cheap commercial rod (I think it was a Daiwa). I was astounded by the sheer ugliness of it and how cheap it looked. Yet today there are many different kinds of graphite reel seats which are widely used. Apparently they are highly functional, in expensive and durable. Many come with metal bands which are gussied up to make them appear attractive. To me it is simply lipstick on a pig. In this thread several ideas were suggested, but they all sound like an ugly guide.

I remember when I first started building rods all we had were chrome plated steel frames and rings. During that time I discovered agate guides with nickel silver frames. Unfortunately, agate is very heavy and very fragile. They were okay for a stripping guide on a fly rod, but not really suited as a running guide. I used Midrum steel guides and Mildrum's version of tungsten carbide rings for my tip tops. Today we have a myriad of guides with several varieties of ceramic materials for rings and coatings These modern guides are often referred to as jewel-like and I agree. These guides for all of their functional problems are beautiful and I love the look of these guides on my rods. I recognize that my opinions are that of a 70+ year old curmudgeon and I probably represent a nano sized minority in the population of rod builders and users, but I hate to eliminate form for function.

One might wonder if we can't develop a metal alloy that is sufficiently flexible as to eliminate the deficiency of current metal framed guides. I hope that is the future we take.

Mike Blomme

Just curious, did you ever see the ones Daiwa made?

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Hi Tom,
I have no idea. I know I saw a graphite reel seat on an inexpensive Daiwa rod being sold at an sporting goods store. Since I had never seen one before, I examined it and thought it was vey cheap looking and ugly. I also wondered how well it would stand up to the rigors of fishing. The latter question has been answered. I cannot say who made that reel seat. Some time later I saw that Fuji was making graphite reel seats. I know they are quite popular and are being sold by many suppliers such as Batson and Pacific Bay. I was not trying to impugn the integrity of either Daiwa or Fuji or any other manufacturer. I'm simply making the point that for me form (beauty) is at least as important as function.

The first time I read your comments regarding the problems with our current guide technology, i thought you had raised a good question. However, I still haven't heard a solution that will resolve my desire for the aesthetic aspect of a custom rod versus the functional aspect of a custom rod.

Mike Blomme

A nylon framed guide need not be any more or less attractive than a metal framed guide and assuming a good design it would certainly be far more functional. The thing is - all modern guides are 30 to 40 years behind the times.

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Michael,
I have ONE set of old Daiwa nylon boat guides with a metal insert. I got them about 15 years ago from another rod builder that was giving up building. I keep hoping someone will re-introduce them.

Hello Ken.

Whats the chances you could post a picture of those guides?(Please).

Thanks.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.