There are bubbles that formed in the epoxy that dried....grrrr..Should I sand it down and reapply the second coat? I'm worried about it happening again. I even tried using the lighter technique; however, the bubbles must have formed again...Any ideas on my error?

I am far from an expert on this board, but I found that the less I moved the epoxy around on the rod, the fewer bubbles I saw. Also, I use a small baking pan or paper plate covered in al. foil to allow the epoxy to flatten out prior to application. You need to load the brush and let the epoxy flow off the brush and on to the rod. Do not brush it or dab it around. If the epoxy appears wavy, then add more epoxy and wick off the excess by LIGHTLY skimming the brush lengthwise across the surface of the epoxy. I am sure you'll get more advice from some of the gurus here. I am only on my 6th rod and the finish is about 80% percent of the quality it should have.

I have always lightly used a propane torch to get rid of bubbles, but one of the newer finishes I bought on a whim didn't perform like the previous.

So the bubbles that stayed in the epoxy as it set overnight...Do I sand that off and reapply a new coat?

Here is what I do to avoid bubbles: Mix epoxy in automatic mixer, pour into foil cup (Mudhole), blow on epoxy with straw if there are tiny bubbles, then apply a thin coat using a stiff brush or spatula and applying lengthwise. I then turn on the rod dryer and watch it for a bit looking for unevenness or bubbles. If there are bubbles, I apply heat from a heat gun on low. After thin coat has become almost dry but still slightly tacky, I apply a thick coat and depending on the wrap, may apply more than 2 coats. The first thin coat allows 2nd coat to flow around the wrap better and has less tendency to trap bubbles. If you decide to sand your finish, make sure that you have enough thickness to sand without hitting the threads. If you only have one coat on, be very careful because it won't take much to sand right into the threads.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

How thick is the coat of epoxy? You can only sand a very small amount, which may or may not get all the bubbles out. The thickness will determine whether you can sand it or not.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

I'm very much a beginner but here's my advice:

Don't get discouraged. Epoxy is not easy, especially the first few times. You'll get better and figure out what works for you.

After the epoxy is applied don't just walk away and forget it. Check it every 15 - 20 minutes to see if bubbles are appearing for the first hour or so. If they are you can usually bust them by blowing through a coffee stirrer.

Was your brush stiff from the first coat of epoxy? A stiff brush will cause more bubbles in my experience. I trashed the brush after my first build and have been using a metal spatula tool ever since. It's not for everybody but I like it.

Well, I let it go overnight after periodically checking on it...It seemed fine after the first thirty minutes, but it must have gotten more bubbles later in the the epoxy setting.

Micheal, You can sand a bubble out once your finish is dry, just go lightly with an disposable nail file or a fine grade small file. Be very careful not to take too much off and get into the thread itself. Trying to prevent all bubbles from forming is next to impossible, a few are going to show up but you can get rid of them by using a few tips. Some of them appear above in the posts by other folks.
1) I use the light formulas of wrap finish, they have a lower viscosity and allow for better bubble release. You are going to have to use multiple coats though.
2) I pour my epoxy out onto a piece of foil that is on a plastic lid or small dish. This allows the epoxy to flatten out and allow any bubbles to come to the top and release. This also allows for longer life of your epoxy and slows down the cure time.
3) I use a stiff brush and allow it to flow onto the wrap, hand turning the rod as I apply finish. If I get too much on, I just wick it off.
4) Once all my wraps are done, I go over the rod, still hand turning it and I use a small section of tubing, very small diameter, like 1/16 inch stuff and softly blow out any bubbles.
5) Once I am happy with the leveling of the finish I turn the power on to my dryer and let the finish cure. I do check it once in a while for the first hour to see if any bubbles have appeared and blow them out. Bubbles can form from air trapped in the wraps when you applied the finish. After an hours time I have rarely had a bubble show up in the first coat. If you do find one after it has cured, you can sand it down and apply a second coat. No bubbles should show up in the second coat after it has cured if you do steps 1 thru 4 above.

I have never had to use heat to remove bubbles, some folks do use it and it works great for them, but I have never had a need for it and I get perfect wraps on my rods.
It can be very frustrating to have this happen, but hang in there and hopefully some of my tips will help you out.

If the bubbles are a concern to you, the best thing to do is to remove the finish, wraps, guides and start over.

If you have bubbles in the finish, any succeeding coats of finish will still likely show the bubbles.

If this is a first rod that you want to build for practice, and just use yourself, the probable best solution, is to put on a 2nd coat of finish if you need to, and go enjoy your rod.

Then, just do some practice on scrap blanks with wraps and finish - no need to put any guides on it - and get your technique down for getting bubble free finish.

If you do a search, you will get lots of information about minimizing the formation of bubbles.
i.e. mixing slowly, putting finish on without touching the rod, etc.

Good luck and enjoy the occupation.

Roger

If you can take a razor blade and trim out/or open up the bubbles WITHOUT hitting the threads, then I would do so and just re-coat. If not, I'm with Roger, while the finish is fresh it removes very easily. I'd strip it all off and start over.

Bill is correct on the pouring out on to foil, and I agree again, sounds like your choice in finish needs changing to a lite version = more working time, better bubble release and leveling. The only thing I like a hi-build fast finish for is guide replacement and small quickie type repairs.

DR

This won't help now, but in the future, do not use your brush to "brush" the finish around. Use the brush as an applicator only, allowing the finish to lower itself to the wrap as you turn the rod underneath the brush. Then leave it alone. The more you do to your epoxy finish, the more problems you're going to have.

...............

Michael,

Most of the guys on this board have been in your shoes when we started. The best advice I can give you regarding flawless epoxy is to do a first coat that is applied very thin, (just enough to wet the thread thoroughly) not enough to sag and drip; after that dries then add your flood coat. Epoxy just isn't that difficult but it does take a little learning curve to see what works best for you.

If the bubbles bother you, I'd say strip and rewrap, you can probably do that faster and with better results than a lot of sanding, etc.

Good Luck, and welcome to the dark side!

Walt Davenport
"Roadhouse Rods"

why doesnt anyone reduce epoxy anymore??

Michael -

Yes, you can sand the bubbles. You can sand down until you hit threads. If you hit threads they will fray and look like crap. However, if you can sand just deep enough to get the bubbles out, you can apply another layer of epoxy and fix it. No matter how bad you sand and scuff the first layer, the next layer will cover and look crystal clear. When you apply the next layer, use heat on the epoxy when you pour it onto the aluminum foil. A quick pass with a torch will burst all the bubbles. Then after you apply the finish to the threads again use the torch to lightly heat the wraps.
When I say use the torch, I mean to pass the torch over the epoxy quickly and also over the threads. Make sure it doesn't smoke, etc.

Billy Vivona had a great comment just a few days ago. You can put some simple wraps on a scrap piece of blank, then apply epoxy and heat it with a torch. Then you can see how long you can actually heat the finish before you ruin them.

Testing is always better than second hand advice. Except my brilliant advice, of course!

Todd

Another option that works very well is to use 1 or 2 coats of color preserver on the wraps first. For me, that always eliminates the chance of bubbles rising from the thread.

Thanks,
Chad Huderle

Huderle Custom Rods
Prior Lake, MN

"why doesnt anyone reduce epoxy anymore??"

Because the folks who formulate the epoxies say not to do it - it changes the characteristics and long term properties of the material.

.............

I went ahead and "lightly" sanded down the bubbles on the first epoxy...The second coat looks great! Thank you for the tips guys...I also found that I had no bubbles when I mixed it on a plate with aluminum foil.

If you put your finish on regular nylon with out CP you should use a thin finish. This way it penitrates the thread and takes the place of the air that causes bubbles

Read the Flex Coat - How we do it [www.flexcoat.com] They thin the first coat to do this. I do mine a little differently.

Daniel
I do. Not recommended but I have had - No Problems with it The light finish should work better. Two coats

When my place gets really warm - I turn on the air to cool it. Keeps the finish wet longer and helps the bubbles rise to the surface.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 08:49AM by bill boettcher.

I did not see mention of a product called 'Bubble Buster" which I got at Mud Hole. I have used it on at least ten rods and have been amazed at how well it removes bubbles. I have thus far had no problems with it. I use it sparingly. I first and foremost mix the epoxy slowly and apply carefully to hopefully avoid bubbles or at least keep them to a minimum. One other small thought my old brain remembers when one is new to rod building is, don't feel you have to get the whole rod done with your mix. Work carefully and don't rush yourself. You can always mix up some more epoxy. Time and practice will make you more efficient and confident; Then like all of us we again run into that build that humbles us and brings us back to ground.
Doug