I'm with Bob on this one. It's not about the bling(mind you I do appreciate those that do bling) but about the right fit. i can't count how many customers have said " I like how rod X casts but the grip doesn't fit me on the factory rod. or "I like the action but I'm taking in the salt and want different guides. There are a lot of guys around here that do "Chuck and Duck" for salmon. they shoot mono off a fly rod. try finding a 9' 8 wt with Alconites off the shelf. There were times I couldn't make those fast enough.

Gary you and I are on the same page. You have to have direct product knowledge as a builder/designer to service any customer with confidence. An the only way to get it is by repairing. reading about a product doesn't do much, hands on will answer must question (look at all the posts). 99.9% of the builders on this site have never seen a factory operation or been to High Point or even meet with a group of builders. ( no fault of theirs, just location). Hey when I started out in the 70's I learned by making every mistake in the book and them some. No one shared and going to a factory was unheard of. Look at todays world there is more info out there than you can imagine. You can read all you want but until you get hands on experience, (what do you really know). This is why I recommend learn how to repair first. While I am on this rant. how many times have you seen a question about XYZ. This shows me they have never researched the subject. Any question concerning rod repair or any thing else to do with rod building can be found here, just go to search. but again here is where repair work gives you knowledge. Sorry about that rant

Good Wraps Bob

Bob Balcombe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chuck I respectfully disagree. Reason being
> repairing lets you understand the construction of
> blanks and rods. In this way when you have a
> customer asking, why should I buy a custom rod
> from you and not buy a factory rod you can explain
> to them with authority why yours is better and
> even show them how a factory constructs rods. I
> had both examples in my shop. Except I removed the
> manufactures name

I don't follow you, Bob. What do you disagree with? I said I don't want to repair broken blanks, and that the repair looks like a pregnant snake. No? I was just asking how many of you repair broken blanks.

Chuck

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 03:46PM by Chuck Mills.

I do broken blank repairs and try to keep the snakes out of the shop while repairs are in progress. I keep the repair under a guide wrap - yes move guides when I have to and change guide heights too - Yes, it is certainly more difficult than other repairs and many times the person will simply opt for a new rod as more cost / performance effective. However under some circumstances it is an option that the customer wants ( " this was my (grand)father's rod " --- " I borrowed this from a good friend and...... " )

I think we are all getting a little off topic here.
Jason wanted some options on starting up a rod business.
a lot of the posters have directed him toward repair as a way of building customer base.
these are just my thoughts as I don't want to see his original post turn into a peeing match.

Chuck I am sorry I miss under stood. I believe when I was still in business 80% was repair work. With each repair job I gained new perspective and knowledge of the materials you have to work with. Even a rod that has been run over crushed and broken can be repair. Some times you have to redesign it. With all this comes new knowledge. With that all behind you you can design any custom rod you like. but it takes hand on no book can explain everything

Good Wraps Bob

Sorry Gary, but to build a customer base you have to start some where> An like I stated repairing is a good starting point. He could go to local fishing stores pass out cards and fliers also hit the local lakes, rivers and streams and just talk to fishermen. Stay away from paid advertisements that just cost you money. belonging to a sports group also helps

Good Wraps Bob

Well

Jason sounds like your at the beginning of your adventure! I began mine last year October. I did allot of research before even making a decision to spend money. I had to consider my passion for it and my own desires in what I wanted to accomplish before I plunged into this addiction. In like all things I do, I practice patience, research, ask questions, don't be judicial about folks own experiences and opinions it works for them and they are happy with it! Most of all be happy doing it!

I will keep it short here ....To give you some advice about the warranty question; I looked at allot of other custom rod builder sites to see what kind of things they were saying about there warranty coverage and most cover there work with there own expectation of there limitations to what they can do to a fishing rod as long as there alive to do so. That may not answer your question but it gives you an idea of what I have found out there. As for Blank Warranties you might check out MudHoles MHX Blanks section in there catalog or go to there website and read about what they offer. I am not advocating here just giving you a starting point to what is available to a custom rod builder. You can go to the other big names and read about there warranties as well and how they handle there issues on Blank failure as well . Its up to you how you handle and care for your craftsmanship. This is just my thoughts is all and good luck in your pursuit!


Be Well

Rick Heil

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

Website
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Right now repairing seems like the better option but I am sure at some point I will get asked "Can you build me a custom rod?". I am not really set up for custom cork work and there are many builders with lathes and all the tools and accessories that go with it. I can see where 4k could be invested easily. I have the tools for repair work for sure.

I want to do something and repairing seems the best route. Very good suggestion.

Good suggestions here for getting clients. I know a few sport shops and fishing guides. What about a yellow pages ad? If your the only one wouldn't it be worth it? I can understand though the cost aspect though.

Here are my main questions?

1. What should I charge for general repair work? My preference right now is to start at what I would earn at any other "2nd" type job and then move up from there. Should I go hourly or flat rate? Flat rate seems better for things like replacing one guide or tip top while hourly might work for a complete rebuild on a old blank. Which one, both?

2. Should I try and get a stock of parts first or just order as I need them? I have no way of knowing what I will need for the first rods so it seems prudent to order as needed. Trying to stock every size and color guide at first seems to expensive.

3. What about turnaround time, Should I give exact dates at first or get the feel for it and then do it later on? Or should "when it gets done" be the only answer.

4. Local pick up by customer right? that way they can see the operation?

Any other advice?

Thanks so far.

Depending on your area and how long it takes you to complete a job . Around here 8 bucks to replace a tip top. to replace a cost of the guide and 12 bucks to wrap. Cost of the guide depends on style. As for replacement parts you can start with a basic assortment the same goes for guides. as for thread. I would go with standard no CP black, gold, white, yellow, purple. Must thread can be matched with out using CP, but on the other hand if you have the color match and don't want it to change use CP. Also do not for get finishes and CP also go to local sporting goods store and look for thread , guide styles on rods. This is where going to the local fishing haunts would help. See what types of rods they are using. Never pass up a broken rod left in a throw away pile, most components are salvageable. I hope this helps

Good Wraps Bob

Jason,
go to the ICRBE and you will be able to get a lot of 'stock' for your startup. Do not over buy. I think last year i got a bag of about 200 blue ringed tip tops for i think $25 from Swampland. Fishsticks had older guides of odd sizes at pennies on the dollar too. Its not going to be the newer stuff under warranty that you are going to repair, so old styles is good. For under $200 i had enough to do 80% of most repairs i get. For a serious match-ups you will always need to order in, its nice to be able to fix fast but fixing right brings repeat business.
Some general comments:
For repairs you will need old scraps (but sound) for extensions and repairs.Goodwill and yard-sales is your friend here. Most reel seat repairs you can go right through the seat and leave the rest alone, you will need a piece of blank to join them up again. People love split grip, work out how to turn an existing grip into one.
From time to time suppliers have specials,closeouts and discontinued lines: buy cork ,guides and eva at that time.
As to a lathe, well i hope to get one someday, i do not have one and get asked to do work that needs it less than 2 times a year.
One thing that brings in custom builds is having samples for folks to see.
This is what works for me with demo models: i build around 15 various types of rods with various finishes etc. All usable by me. My Demo models. Then during December thru February i sell them off at cost via craigslist and start again for the new year. That way my rods can be seen and waggled,test cast, various finishes and styles can be seen rather than spoken about. I run a weekly advertisement in Craigslist (its free). About 20 % of my repairs result in a custom build within a year. I call every person i ever built for 2 to 3 months after the build to see if they are happy with their rod and many have then ordered another or brought their friend to me for one. All but one appreciated the call.
Do NOT be scared to walk away from a repair or build, that $20 rod and reel combo that somebody drove over while drunk and now wants repaired for $7 is not what you want to get involved in. Have the name of somebody that does that handy and refer them.
That was rambling but i hope it helps you a little.
good luck and have fun or stop doing it!

Jason -
My only comment is TIME. You will need to invest as much or more time than money to get started. It sounds mindless but it's a fact. You will have to go to / join local clubs and regularly attend their meetings; attend fishing shows; visit local bait and tackle shops - with a listing of charges for repairs and ask that they put up your information on their counter / bulletin board etc. You should also have one/two examples of repairs you've accomplished. You will also have to invest serious time learning how to do repairs. This too sounds simple but it really isn't. Go find some nasty, beat up rods (as above Goodwill, yard sales, flea markets are your new "friends"). Rewrap / repair 1/2 of the guides on a few rods as "samples of my work". . Those are your "Hoover door to door sales" pieces. Take lots and lots of "before and after photos" Eventually you may want to consider a web site - or do some posting on Facebook. The above practice of building during the year / selling on Craig's list may also work for you - Don't sell your TIME cheap. Ok - so doing those things above are an investment of TIME - Be ready for it. You are going to have to hone your skills to turn a profit over time invested - that means doing solid, reputable "clean" work in minimum time and that takes practice - lots of it

Also you will benefit greatly by finding, meeting, talking with a local rod builder - seek out one or two. Make the trip it will be worth it to you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 10:48AM by Ken Preston.

I would like to emphasize Ken's comments ... quality repairs ARE considerably harder to execute properly than new builds. IF your new builds aren't immaculate ... don't move into repairs. Some repairs are easy, some are moderate and some are "why did I accept this work". However, you don't get to pick - the customer is dependent on you to restore their equipment.

IMO, it is imperative to return a rod to a "better than" state when doing work on it. My goal was to always match threads (if at all possible), finish thickness, guide frame, ceramic insert, etc. The shops that I worked for always told customers that my work was "more art than rod repair" and that I was a true craftsman ... obviously, they felt comfortable selling my work AND promoting it. IMO, that's the goal you need to set for yourself and that's the type of work that will keep you busy AND provide the extra cash you are looking for.

Jim you have received the good/bad of great trade and craft. In my humble opinion I would do it all over again. I enjoyed my 30 plus years. Made some great friends and made some good money, Just remember each rod is a new experience.
It was mentioned earlier don;t give your workmanship/creative talent and labor away. Always remember you are a craftsman

Good Wraps Bob

That helps a lot. Thanks for the replies.

I have completely rebuild 3 rods using only the blank, everything else was new. The experience of stripping off the components and removing cork and reel seats should be a good starting point. I will take the advice and get more practice. I took photos of one of them and the transformation was nice.

Thanks for the tips, I will be building more rods for myself this summer and practicing repairs and then begin gathering stock and hopefully by next spring start up. I need some practice with some thing like fixing blanks first.

Thanks again.

Jason

Hey Jason, I to am from west michigan and am starting my third year of rodbuilding. If you need any help with anything shoot me an email. Also am looking for someone to share a ride to the icrbe.