I've done it a few times, and it really bit me in the rear once. I try to discourage it, and only do it now in rare circumstances, and only after adjusting the price accordingly. No parts warranty from me on anything I didn't provide.

Walt Davenport
"Roadhouse Rods"

Good point Tom, I am sure that would be the case. Theres a engine builder in town that was letting people supply their parts. He got a bad rep. becaause of some failures. He builds great racing engines but now only supplies the parts.

Interesting timing... I just got an email request to build a rod. Everything was spec'd out straight from the "new catalog I just got".

Hope you guys are ready for "educated" customers.

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If it is - factory Specs - they are not very educated ???

Bill - willierods.com

When I've done this in the past I have ALWAYS told the customer that he is getting a Custom Made Rod. The guide spacing will be based on the blank characteristics as well as careful stress testing and therefore the spacing may vary (likely will vary) from 'off the shelf' or 'catalog guide spacing charts'.

Companies like the one major one to the left are to blame. Look at any fishing magazine and there is their advertisement. Does it increase sales? Maybe if the customer actually builds the rod. I would speculate that for the most part, its robbing Peter to pay Paul. If more do what Billy (and I) do, people will see that there is really no advantage of buying stuff and drop shipping it to our shops.

Many fishermen think they will save money by supplying the parts. They figure the rod builder is making a fortune on blank and component mark up and if they supply those pieces they'll come out way ahead. This isn't something that's just started happening. Some fishermen have been doing it for years. As long as there are builders who are willing to accommodate them, they'll continue doing it. Just the nature of the beast.

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kevin caught what "new catalog I just got" meant - good job

The email listed blank, winding checks, seat style, guide type and size... you don't get that from factory rod specs...

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2011 08:43PM by kevin knox.

Mud Hole is trying to make it easy for fishermen to build their own rods. Too many guys are afraid to spend the money on parts and pieces then not do something right - all the nonsense about rod spine and that sort of thing intimidates a good people who would otherwise try their hand at custom rod building. Mud Hole isn't trying to get fishermen to buy parts and carry them to custom rod builders - they're trying to create more custom rod builders. If it happens that some guys buy parts and then carry them to a custom builder for assembly, it's up to the builder to decide if he will or won't build the rod and/or what he wishes to charge.

The number of fishermen who buy parts and carry them to custom builders against the number who simply decide to get involved in custom rod building themselves due to those ads or catalogs is not even close. The latter wins by a huge margin.

I don't want to read any more of the snipping and sniping towards any company on this forum. Enough of that goes on elsewhere and it's not going to be tolerated here.

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TOM, good for you! One of the great things about this forum is the fact that "cheap shots" and personal criticisms are not allowed.

Keep it up!

No cheap shot intended. I never mentioned a company..

Tom - From my perspective, it's really not "snipping and sniping". It's just what is occuring as a side effect of successful marketing.

Really there are several lessons everyone could take away from the steps they are taking to grow their business.

As a result it's loosely educating potential customers. These folks are seeing what is out there in a way they never have before and those requests are sometimes filtering to the builder.

There are pros and cons to both sides that could be debated all day. I'm sure you would agree with that.

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Not mentioning the actual name of the company doesn't change anything - I've had that done to me plenty of times. It's still the same thing. Let's not do it. Thanks.

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Each of us has to determine our own business plan. Way back when I took this into consideration. Very simply put I will build on your blank, even use your components if they meet my standards. I will stand behind my assembly and wraps. However they understand that they are responsible for the blank and components warranty. I get my price for building the rod. I do not depend on blank and component sales to be profitable. The labor rate is everything.

Years ago I took on work from a couple customers that I would not do again. It was a learning experience. Sometimes we have to say NO!

Yes, such a rod may break for whatever reason. The customer knows the warranty is his problem. Yes he may tell folks what a lousy person/builder I am, usually on line thru a local web site. With the internet today negative word does get out fast. However if I have a good reputation the positive posts will over whelm the one negative. A few years back I answered a question and stated yes, I did loan a rod to a potential customer and never had it returned to me as promised. One rod out of all the times I loaned rods. Well, you should have seen the posts stating Capt Neil give me his name and address and the guy will be taken care of. That scared the @#$%& out of me. What if these guys were serious? I believed they were. Fortunately I never gave out the guys name or phone #. So I lost one rod, big deal. What about all the orders the loaner rods generated?

As long as I get my labor rate I will work with the angler. Most of my customers become good friends. They help me and I help them.

Just my way.

Capt Neil Faulkner

Hey I will be glad to build rods for customers that supply their own parts. If they understand that I will not warranty their parts then I come out ahead! What could be better than building a rod, making the money, and not having to worry about warrantying the rod? Sounds like a great situation for a custom rod builder to me!

It would really be an advantage if everyone would furnish the materials. Along with the no warranty you wouldn't have to worry about FET taxes and state sales tax also. And when they break one, it will cost the same to rebuild it. Im sure that would work out well for the suppliers, as they can make more on materials to a retail customer. Thanks for everyone that posted, without this board I could only have access to the few builders I know for their opinions.

Good thread Mike. If a builder needs to up the price of components to make a profit then he is not charging enough for the build in the first place. If a customer wants to supply his own components and you think they are crap then tell him so and why. If he still wants it built you can always say no. If you decide to build it then charge appropriately but be prepared to get bad mouthed if something breaks , even if you didn't supply it. Get a signed written contract of what is happening then you've got some defense. Take note of the three previous replies plus Tom's first one and make up your own mind want you want to do.
ESFNEM Col



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 01:40AM by Col Chaseling.

Col.
I have to disagree with your statement about not using parts to increase profit on the bottom line of the business.
That is why we have a business license, and that is why we buy parts wholesale and sell parts retail.
We need a profit to stay in business and any well run business will use EVERY part of the business to grow profit.

Whe you buy the parts, you have to order, stock, and handle the parts. Certainly parts markup should be part of every well run business.

Roger

Personally, I find it hard to fault any business for helping to create new builders and promote the craft (and also improve their bottom line, which is what we all do, isn't it?) It is not up to the vendor to get us business, it is up to us to promote and sell our skills. We base our business on quality and service and if a fisherman buys a kit and builds a rod better that we can, then we probably should step back and examine our skills. Consider also that they are paying retail and we are buying wholesale

Anyone that's been around this craft for 10 or 20 years knows how many vendors, manufacturers have gone under and how many builders have moved on to other things. In my opinion, anything that promotes the craft, introduces new people to rodbuilding and improves the long term survival/stability of the craft/business can only help us. Without a constant influx of new builders the craft will suffer greatly

I live in a fishing hot bed at the mouth of Lake Erie and am within a few hours of the Salmon fishery in Lake Michigan and Huron and judging from the anglers that I meet, it's amazing how many are not really aware of custom rods.

I prefer to look at the glass as half full and not half empty.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!